03-16-2004, 07:16 PM
Thank you for the beautiful compliment and your info. Your definitley correct on your point. As for Roman horses, its false to believe that all rode ponies. First and foremost, Spanish horses, of much larger size were very prized in the Roman world and very sought after. However, much like today, we have a very inexpensive and common car and the highend creme de la creme cars. It is the same in the horse world today as it was thousands of years ago.<br>
<br>
For example in Persia, all horses that were born white, or whitened to a pure white, or what is considered a blue roan, were immediatley presented to the kings court for approval into is stables, if not approved, then passed down the ranks. This was a tradition that was preserved until the early part of this century in Iran.<br>
<br>
As for Shapur's horse, it is one of a few breeds in Iran, Akhal Teke or the Kurd Mountain horse or the Nisean or the Persian, which today by name is nolonger existant. There are the finer more wirey types and the more bulky heavy bread types. Much like today if you see a thoroubred, you will see some with a more arab trait and some with a more heavy european trait. I.E. and Irish thoroughbred or lets say a horse like a seabiscut. Cant think of a better example right now. My thoroughbreds are very typey and fine bread and look exactly like the Persian horses and are of the same size and confirmation. That is why I picked them. My last trip to Iran, I saw many many many of these horses.<br>
<br>
Also, one other point, pony does not just refer to a horses size, it is a specific breed type. What was thought extinct and rediscovered in the 20th century actually florishing in Iran is the Caspian pony, which is not a pony, its an actual horse. It looks like a miniature horse at only 9 hands. The elite of the Persians used these horses for chariots and for the training of their cavalry which started at the age of 5. Kids were trained on horses not ponies.<br>
<br>
As for the positioning of the horses and why they look like clysdales on Shapur and Ardeshir's carvings. That is the way a horse is trained to carry itself and a Stallion even further exaggerates the look. Now this is without getting to technical about it. But I was very classically trained in Dressage and when riding, my polo ponies, I can make them look like that. So, its not that clysdales only look like that, but many horses can be made to look like that, even heavy classical bred Arab horses that are still bred to the old world standard and not what we breed here today.<br>
<br>
So in looking at the Roman horse, first and foremost, it is extremelly important to see the region the horse served in, who it served under and for what purpose. For a cataphract of extreme armor, you need a horse that can carry that weight, but for scirmish horses, such as hit and run archers or lancers or javalaneers, you need horses of extremel endurance. When the Romans wrote of the Parthian attacks, one of the overwhelming features they endured was the duration of the attacks. When they thought the attack was over, was only an actual retreat to get another quiver of arrows, each quiver housing over 100 arrows. So one can only imagine the length of attack endured by a legionaire under his shield, and its returning waves.<br>
<br>
Finally as for the saddle, yes, your dead on. Different forms require different saddles. A heavy attack, frontally, on a Roman Phalanx will require larger horns to brace the rider for impact, while the more speedy riders such as archers, ropers, lancers need the manueverability of smaller horns. Further more, one has to take into consideration that these saddles had to be supportive enough not only for the rider but the horse. A pad such as the earlier Acheaminid Persians saddles or greek saddles is only sufficient for a soldier carrying primary weapons, but not one carrying the abundance of weapons that the Cataphracts did. Most often, it includes on the rider, sword, dagger, axe, quiver, bow and bow quiver, on the horse another quiver for spare bows, perhaps another quiver for spare arrows, large club/mace, javalins, in some cases spare sword, and sometimes the quiver of bows and arros was mounted to the saddle and not the rider. Add to this the weight of a fully armored rider, and you need the foundation of a saddle tree or it will not work. I have seen a four horned saddle that is not ridged and the horns are loose. It is absolutely useless and infact more of a bother than a help.<br>
<br>
On another note, thank you very much for the compliments on my horses. They are very special animals to me and extremely well trained. They are more like my babies than anything else. I have four, Cyrus, Darius, Roxxanna and Arrianna. I have had many others, but these are the horses in my string now. I have armored up on them, unfortunately I never took pictures, and its pretty awesome looking. Next time I will take some pictures.<br>
<br>
Oh, and to address a question up top. In Iran today, Zoroastrians are praised. In fact, many, even though illegal, consider themselves as Zoroastrians, and it is unbelievable, beyond explanation the reassurgance of the Pre-Islamic Persian Ideals and culture and it is overtly apparent. Many wear the Zoroastrian symbols out in public and proclaim it as their true heratige.<br>
<br>
And finally, in two weeks I will be going to Iran for 3 weeks. I cannot waite.<br>
<br>
Ardeshir Radpour<br>
Sassanian <p></p><i></i>
<br>
For example in Persia, all horses that were born white, or whitened to a pure white, or what is considered a blue roan, were immediatley presented to the kings court for approval into is stables, if not approved, then passed down the ranks. This was a tradition that was preserved until the early part of this century in Iran.<br>
<br>
As for Shapur's horse, it is one of a few breeds in Iran, Akhal Teke or the Kurd Mountain horse or the Nisean or the Persian, which today by name is nolonger existant. There are the finer more wirey types and the more bulky heavy bread types. Much like today if you see a thoroubred, you will see some with a more arab trait and some with a more heavy european trait. I.E. and Irish thoroughbred or lets say a horse like a seabiscut. Cant think of a better example right now. My thoroughbreds are very typey and fine bread and look exactly like the Persian horses and are of the same size and confirmation. That is why I picked them. My last trip to Iran, I saw many many many of these horses.<br>
<br>
Also, one other point, pony does not just refer to a horses size, it is a specific breed type. What was thought extinct and rediscovered in the 20th century actually florishing in Iran is the Caspian pony, which is not a pony, its an actual horse. It looks like a miniature horse at only 9 hands. The elite of the Persians used these horses for chariots and for the training of their cavalry which started at the age of 5. Kids were trained on horses not ponies.<br>
<br>
As for the positioning of the horses and why they look like clysdales on Shapur and Ardeshir's carvings. That is the way a horse is trained to carry itself and a Stallion even further exaggerates the look. Now this is without getting to technical about it. But I was very classically trained in Dressage and when riding, my polo ponies, I can make them look like that. So, its not that clysdales only look like that, but many horses can be made to look like that, even heavy classical bred Arab horses that are still bred to the old world standard and not what we breed here today.<br>
<br>
So in looking at the Roman horse, first and foremost, it is extremelly important to see the region the horse served in, who it served under and for what purpose. For a cataphract of extreme armor, you need a horse that can carry that weight, but for scirmish horses, such as hit and run archers or lancers or javalaneers, you need horses of extremel endurance. When the Romans wrote of the Parthian attacks, one of the overwhelming features they endured was the duration of the attacks. When they thought the attack was over, was only an actual retreat to get another quiver of arrows, each quiver housing over 100 arrows. So one can only imagine the length of attack endured by a legionaire under his shield, and its returning waves.<br>
<br>
Finally as for the saddle, yes, your dead on. Different forms require different saddles. A heavy attack, frontally, on a Roman Phalanx will require larger horns to brace the rider for impact, while the more speedy riders such as archers, ropers, lancers need the manueverability of smaller horns. Further more, one has to take into consideration that these saddles had to be supportive enough not only for the rider but the horse. A pad such as the earlier Acheaminid Persians saddles or greek saddles is only sufficient for a soldier carrying primary weapons, but not one carrying the abundance of weapons that the Cataphracts did. Most often, it includes on the rider, sword, dagger, axe, quiver, bow and bow quiver, on the horse another quiver for spare bows, perhaps another quiver for spare arrows, large club/mace, javalins, in some cases spare sword, and sometimes the quiver of bows and arros was mounted to the saddle and not the rider. Add to this the weight of a fully armored rider, and you need the foundation of a saddle tree or it will not work. I have seen a four horned saddle that is not ridged and the horns are loose. It is absolutely useless and infact more of a bother than a help.<br>
<br>
On another note, thank you very much for the compliments on my horses. They are very special animals to me and extremely well trained. They are more like my babies than anything else. I have four, Cyrus, Darius, Roxxanna and Arrianna. I have had many others, but these are the horses in my string now. I have armored up on them, unfortunately I never took pictures, and its pretty awesome looking. Next time I will take some pictures.<br>
<br>
Oh, and to address a question up top. In Iran today, Zoroastrians are praised. In fact, many, even though illegal, consider themselves as Zoroastrians, and it is unbelievable, beyond explanation the reassurgance of the Pre-Islamic Persian Ideals and culture and it is overtly apparent. Many wear the Zoroastrian symbols out in public and proclaim it as their true heratige.<br>
<br>
And finally, in two weeks I will be going to Iran for 3 weeks. I cannot waite.<br>
<br>
Ardeshir Radpour<br>
Sassanian <p></p><i></i>
