"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons." Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
The lower one costs 2450 Euro though and a new sword belt may be the better decision anyway, considering these broad sword-belts were thoroughly out of style in the 4th century.
Quote:The lower one costs 2450 Euro though and a new sword belt may be the better decision anyway, considering these broad sword-belts were thoroughly out of style in the 4th century.
Nice photos btw
What exactly were they using in the 4th Century then?
I've been thinking of the top one for some time!
But am making my own at the moment...not quite as nice....
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
The website itself says 300 AD concerning the leather works, but I meant the sword-belt (balteus) not the cingulum anyway.
The sword-belts were rather thin in the 4th century and without the characteristic ornamental disks. Occassionaly thicker examples can be found depicted in some crude artworks like the soldier relief from Lentia, but I'd attribute that to the crudeness, as most metal fittings are narrow, too.
Finer artworks such as the diptych of Stilicho show thin sword-belts, sometimes worn as baldric over the shoulders, sometimes around the hip like Stilicho does: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...iptych.jpg
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Thanks Kai! Do you have any info on the thin plates you mention?
Yeah Moi, I was thinking that myself!
Look at his other prices..
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Quote: The website itself says 300 AD concerning the leather works, but I meant the sword-belt (balteus) not the cingulum anyway.
The sword-belts were rather thin in the 4th century and without the characteristic ornamental disks. Occassionaly thicker examples can be found depicted in some crude artworks like the soldier relief from Lentia, but I'd attribute that to the crudeness, as most metal fittings are narrow, too.
Finer artworks such as the diptych of Stilicho show thin sword-belts, sometimes worn as baldric over the shoulders, sometimes around the hip like Stilicho does:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Stilico_diptych.jpg
You had me confused when you referred to these as 'sword-belts' Swords were indeed usually suspended either by a (narrow) baldric or a (narrow) sword-belt, but I've yet to see evidence that these wide belts were commonly used to suspend a sword from. We've discussed this earlier, btw. So yes, baldrics and sword-belts were indeed narrow. But these wide cingulae were in my opinion rightly dated to the 4th century.
Robert Vermaat MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
To clarify that, I do not think the belts by AF you posted above were used to suspend swords from it. When I was talking about thinner sword-belts I meant the ones used for suspending swords, not the cingulum. (I thought Jyrki's cingulum is fine, his sword-belt rather not). Indeed I don't think they were used to carry the sword and the broadness is a 4th century feature, despite some possible forerunners...
The lower one of the belts you posted has leather works inspired by the broad (really broad) belt of the Gommern lord, which is to my best knowledge the later 3rd century. I have no idea how exactly the plates AF used are dated.
Quote: To clarify that, I do not think the belts by AF you posted above were used to suspend swords from it. When I was talking about thinner sword-belts I meant the ones used for suspending swords, not the cingulum. (I thought Jyrki's cingulum is fine, his sword-belt rather not). Indeed I don't think they were used to carry the sword and the broadness is a 4th century feature, despite some possible forerunners...
Thanks. Yeah, I was put on the wrong foot there, you referred to Jyrki and not the belt images. I had to split the thread btw, away from the 'Roman impression' as we were heading elsewhere.
Quote:The lower one of the belts you posted has leather works inspired by the broad (really broad) belt of the Gommern lord, which is to my best knowledge the later 3rd century. I have no idea how exactly the plates AF used are dated.
OK, so this would be based on a Germanic burial instead of a Roman find?
Robert Vermaat MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
The lower belt is inspired by a Roman belt from the Silistra burial site, where two nearly intact Spathas and acabbards were found along with the belt. This is dated to the late 3rd Century, early 4th Century. Here are a couple pics of the originals, the better quality one is from Budapest, and is likely the inspiration for the AT reproduction.
[attachment=4353]late3rdCbeltplate.jpg[/attachment]
![[Image: 955d308995.jpg]](http://www.ciberupload.com/uploads/955d308995.jpg)
![[Image: fectio.png]](http://s226.photobucket.com/user/sattuviitana/media/fectio.png.html)
hock: ...
![[Image: regnumhesperium.png]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3673/regnumhesperium.png)
![[Image: websitepic.jpg]](http://www.roman-artifacts.com/files/websitepic.jpg)
