03-15-2005, 09:24 AM
Khairete all!<br>
<br>
Some of you may now, others won't, that I enjoy writing historical fiction as an amateur and wannabe writer.<br>
<br>
For a non-profit, charity fund-raising organizations, a group of writers are going to publish a short stories anthology, with all proceeding going for the fund.<br>
<br>
After much thought, I have decided to write a story about the battle of Marathon. While I have the picture pretty clear in my head, several doubts (some ancient ones still not resolved, and some only mine) have got in the middle. I am seeking your knowledge on this matter to reach some reasonable consensus, so I can try and write an enjoyable and as accurate as possible story about Marathon.<br>
<br>
According to Herodotus the Persian commander Datis had with him some 26,000 infantry and some 1000 cavalry, but sites about the battle reports that there was probably less than 20,000... Is there any academic consensus about the whole numbers? (9000-10000 Athenians + 1000 Plateans, and some 20,000 Persian infantry plus 1000 cavalry?)<br>
<br>
Secondly, it's said that Miltiades proposed a weakened center line of three ranks, while the wings maintained 8 ranks. Considering 20,000 Persian infantry, I get these numbers:<br>
<br>
* 2,500 men of front line, and 8 ranks for the Persians, where the first and maybe the second line (~5,000) were spears and the rest (~15,000) archers (sparabara? would they add 1 more shields line and leave 5 ranks depth of archers?). How likely is that the Persian ranks were of a different depth? (maybe 12? 16?) This profoundly affects the army front length and, therefore, the number of hoplites the greeks had to put in the 3-ranks center to allow stronger wings.<br>
<br>
* 1,858x3 ranks hoplites in the center, and ~321x8 each wing.<br>
<br>
Now, lastly, how many arrows would be an archer capable of firing per minute? According to some rough calculations, based on the excelent Gary Brueggeman's site info about roman skirmishers and march elements, the archers could cover distances between 50 meters (direct bowfire) and up to ~180/200 meters (loft fire).<br>
<br>
The hoplites could have run that distance in about one minute and a half, considering the amount of armor they had, and the beach condition on the terrain. Thus they would have to face about 15,000*A*K arrows per minute, where K less than 1 is a factor to take into account that the probability of all arrows going to the same distance is actually pretty small, and A is the number of arrows per minute that could be delivered by the archers.<br>
<br>
And one last thing: is it possible that about 320x8 hoplites in phalanx per wing could overcome the 15,000 army by attacking its flank? I know they would have close to 0 probability of facing heavy infantry in hand-to-hand combat, and the greeks obviously won, but nevertheless, the numbers don't sum up very well (for example with 26,000 Persian infantry, the greek wings would be less than 200x8, which seems very little, however the Persian ranks were of just 8 people...)<br>
<br>
any comments very appreciated, thanks!<br>
<br>
P. Lilius a.k.a. Argyros <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p208.ezboard.com/bgreekarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=publiusliliusfrugiussimius>Publius Lilius Frugius Simius</A> at: 3/20/05 17:55<br></i>
<br>
Some of you may now, others won't, that I enjoy writing historical fiction as an amateur and wannabe writer.<br>
<br>
For a non-profit, charity fund-raising organizations, a group of writers are going to publish a short stories anthology, with all proceeding going for the fund.<br>
<br>
After much thought, I have decided to write a story about the battle of Marathon. While I have the picture pretty clear in my head, several doubts (some ancient ones still not resolved, and some only mine) have got in the middle. I am seeking your knowledge on this matter to reach some reasonable consensus, so I can try and write an enjoyable and as accurate as possible story about Marathon.<br>
<br>
According to Herodotus the Persian commander Datis had with him some 26,000 infantry and some 1000 cavalry, but sites about the battle reports that there was probably less than 20,000... Is there any academic consensus about the whole numbers? (9000-10000 Athenians + 1000 Plateans, and some 20,000 Persian infantry plus 1000 cavalry?)<br>
<br>
Secondly, it's said that Miltiades proposed a weakened center line of three ranks, while the wings maintained 8 ranks. Considering 20,000 Persian infantry, I get these numbers:<br>
<br>
* 2,500 men of front line, and 8 ranks for the Persians, where the first and maybe the second line (~5,000) were spears and the rest (~15,000) archers (sparabara? would they add 1 more shields line and leave 5 ranks depth of archers?). How likely is that the Persian ranks were of a different depth? (maybe 12? 16?) This profoundly affects the army front length and, therefore, the number of hoplites the greeks had to put in the 3-ranks center to allow stronger wings.<br>
<br>
* 1,858x3 ranks hoplites in the center, and ~321x8 each wing.<br>
<br>
Now, lastly, how many arrows would be an archer capable of firing per minute? According to some rough calculations, based on the excelent Gary Brueggeman's site info about roman skirmishers and march elements, the archers could cover distances between 50 meters (direct bowfire) and up to ~180/200 meters (loft fire).<br>
<br>
The hoplites could have run that distance in about one minute and a half, considering the amount of armor they had, and the beach condition on the terrain. Thus they would have to face about 15,000*A*K arrows per minute, where K less than 1 is a factor to take into account that the probability of all arrows going to the same distance is actually pretty small, and A is the number of arrows per minute that could be delivered by the archers.<br>
<br>
And one last thing: is it possible that about 320x8 hoplites in phalanx per wing could overcome the 15,000 army by attacking its flank? I know they would have close to 0 probability of facing heavy infantry in hand-to-hand combat, and the greeks obviously won, but nevertheless, the numbers don't sum up very well (for example with 26,000 Persian infantry, the greek wings would be less than 200x8, which seems very little, however the Persian ranks were of just 8 people...)<br>
<br>
any comments very appreciated, thanks!<br>
<br>
P. Lilius a.k.a. Argyros <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p208.ezboard.com/bgreekarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=publiusliliusfrugiussimius>Publius Lilius Frugius Simius</A> at: 3/20/05 17:55<br></i>
