Disaster strikes Pompeii... Collapse of several walls

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Personally regarding this thread i think shrugging a little against modern politics is not that bad, whatever the rules.

Fact is, as i have stated multiple times in multiple threads on here, sometimes violently, ridiculous, provocative, sometimes well thought through, that the Italians do not seem to be fit to take care of their and the world's heritage when it comes to the Etruscan, Greek, and Roman legacy.

Time and again it has been proved they are simply not worth it. (and by this i mean consecutive Italian governments dating back to the end of World War Two)

Of course not all Italians are in the same league, a lot of them do care and care a lot about their heritage and monuments.

However if the world (read UN, UNESCO and others) does not act now, in about 70 years from now we will be left with a pile of rubble where once proud monuments stood. The documentary on the demise by nature of the colosseum made it very clear that we (humans, industrial pollution, disregard, money lust)
are the main cause for the destruction.

Then again you could say, but well when Vesuvius erupts again there also will not be much left. True but that is nature...
In this case it is complete disregard and non-caring.

One of my Italian friends told me the money which was meant to be used for conserving those buildings in Pompeii actually was put in a giant car park and visitor centre with shops and restaurants...

Hence my over the top reaction.

If Rome still existed, and i would be consul, they would NOT get away with this. (keep dreaming, yes)

So internationally something will have to be done, and done fast.

M.VIB.M.

[Praefectusclassis]

If Rome still existed, and i would be consul...

There's a prospect to be feared! *shudder*

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

The blood of this man runs through my veins.....



:mrgreen: :twisted:

M.VIB.M.

[Praefectusclassis]

Statistically speaking with at least some 40 generations between us and the Romans, his blood runs through all our veins! :lol: (2^40 comes to a number greater than 1000 billion ancestors at that time)

[Paullus Scipio]

Whist I sympathise with your views, Henk, it should be remembered that:-
A) It is not just preservation of of archaeology that suffers from corruption and inefficiency - the whole 'system' from the government down does.......

B) Italy has more Art/Archaeology than the rest of Europe put together to preserve.....and one of the smaller European economies to do it with! Not just ancient either. All that mediaeval stuff, and renaissance, and baroque.... then there's the Art.....consider Florence alone - stuffed to the gills with Art, Archaeology and Architecture - imagine the cost of preserving just the art, never mind the fabric of the city !! And there's Rome........and don't even consider Venice - still sinking, by the way !!!!!!

Thus, if you managed to succeed Signor Berlosconi as 'Consul", with all the best will in the world, you would not be able to achieve much......

It needs willpower and money on a 'world scale' ( How about taking over the oil companies and making their entire profits over to "World heritage !???)' :evil: :twisted: :twisted:

Jasper, I suppose you realise the flaw with your Maths/Genetics statement? Whilst theoretically possible, in fact that number you quote supposes all those people are different individuals, but in reality once you start going back a few generations, the 'gene pool' gets very limited generally - basically people within walking distance of your village, which leads to a lot of 'in-breeding' and the inevitable 'village idiot'.

From a genetic viewpoint, war and the occasional invasion from time to time, with all the village women given an influx of new genes from 'foreigners' is a good thing !! D lol: :lol:

[caiusbeerquitius]

Erm. This is stupid.
Just informing oneself before ranting usually helps. :roll:
So: The building that collapsed is NOT the gladiator school. The gladiator school is not situated at the Via dell´Abbondanza, as everybody who has been to Pompeji already and actually familiarized himself with the place a tiny bit should immediately have noticed. The building that collapsed is commonly known as the "Schola Iuventutis". The building was already destroyed in WWII when it was hit by an American bomb. It was restored in the 40ies, with concrete ceilings of a bad quality, which were known for a while now to have been too heavy for the walls. Together with the weather situation the building now finally collapsed. But it is still in a better state than 1945.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Thank you for that info :|

However, the collapse of that building and the domus aurea roof as well as the crumbling of half of Herculaneum and Pompeii certainly are not something to take light hearted!

The thread still stands, the Italians should take better care of their monuments and heritage.

It is by no means stupid and by no means uninformed when quoting a news article which was quoted just like it was posted by numerous newspapers, even Italian ones.

How would you feel if the "badly reconstructed" city centres of Dresden, Hamburg or Berlin fell apart because some people just did not care about their heritage?

M.VIB.M.

[Paullus Scipio]

While it is unfortunate that an incorrect newspaper item should be the means by which a 'spotlight' is focused on the crumbling of these monuments, the problem really is severe and deserves to be highlighted. Pompeii and Herculaneum are literally crumbling before our eyes, vandalised and graffitied. ( who would spray paint some lovesick teenagers message across a priceless 2000 year old fragile work of art?....But I have seen frescos thus destroyed!! :evil: ).

Because of its size, Pompeii always had 'closed' sections ( but a pretty girlfriend with a winning smile and who spoke Italian could get the custodians to open up anywhere :wink: , even where priceless artifacts were displayed in the buildings themselves - secured only by a padlock (!) --such days are long gone!! ), when I first visited Herculaneum, one could freely enter almost every building, and venture onto balconies and upper stories. Now, most of Herculaneum is 'chiuso per retoratio' too. No upper works are accessible, and perhaps more than half the site is closed, whole streets being inaccessible. Much is overgrown too. A sorry mess........ ( (

[Epictetus]

Didn't David Packard offer to completely fund new excavations in Herculaneum? What would be nice is for some sympathetic billionaire to offer to completely fund the protection and restoration of already-excavated areas.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Dear Paul,
I completely agree to your statement about the problems in Italy. It is absolutely necessary that something happens quickly to preserve the site for future generations. But if one tries to see it realistically, in a state where the political class is as corrupt as in Italy, where there are only few integres in the gouvernment, it is hardly possible. Indeed the UNESCO should do something. What we can do besides frequently posting on RAT is e.g. supporting the institutions that try to change something in the Vesuvio area. e.g.:
[url:3p6bvmqi]http://www.phoenix-pompeji.de/[/url]
Instead of ranting, one could send some money. That would make it even more legitimate to rant, because one has made personal investments there. :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

Just informing oneself before ranting usually helps. [..] So: The building that collapsed is NOT the gladiator school. [..] The building was already destroyed in WWII when it was hit by an American bomb.

Brilliant. Thanks for that! So it was not even a 'Roman ruin' that collapsed, but 'just' a modern reconstruction.

Under whose control would those areas be?

Mine. Just give me the money. :twisted:

Statistically speaking with at least some 40 generations between us and the Romans, his blood runs through all our veins! :lol:

Just 40? With an average of 30 years to every generation?

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Totally agree with this last statement of yours Caius !

Indeed ranting is never a good idea, however, venting ones anger can be very rewarding, as long as people are willing and able to look beyond the cynicism, satire and do not take everything literally.

Of course the press should have been better informed, but you cannot expect every Rat member to know the ins and out of Pompeii, especially those who have not visited the town yet.

M.VIB.M.

[Sardaukar]

O tempora! O mores! 8) (exclamation marks don't do good Latin, tho... )

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, it wasn't too hard to figure out that a building with frescoes of gladiators in it probably wasn't the school, especially given the size and description. :wink:

[Medicus matt]

Instead of ranting, one could send some money. That would make it even more legitimate to rant, because one has made personal investments there. :wink:

Or they could be charging more for admission to the site. What is it these days, about £10/11Euro? Ridiculously cheap. I think they could probably charge twice that amount with no drop in visitor numbers. That'd be upwards of another £20 million a year which, if pumped straight back into the site, could help enormously.

And, for those of you who think that this is a lot of money to spend all day in one of the worlds unique archaeological treasures, you might like to bear in mind that, as of last week, a one day admission ticket for the archaeological park at Petra costs about £90.