Vindolanda: unfortunate find

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

This is very sad, but it is still part of the archaeological record. We can't ignore the things that are troubling if we are to be objective in our studies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-11324607

Ralph

[sacoharry]

It'll be fascinating to see if forensics can give any answers to the circumstance. The Vindolanda Trust's original report ([url:2u5lgam3]http://www.vindolanda.com/downloads/vindolanda_skeleton_press_release.pdf[/url]) shows that the sex is so far indeterminate.

What do we know about Roman army practices for having younger people around? One could suspect that vicus urchins and orphans (as well as children of the soldiers) would spend time with the soldiers -- for reasons both pure and nefarious. But is there documentary evidence of this? Or of how the movements of such children would be monitored within a fort's walls? It appears to have happened in the mid-3rd Century -- the time of the flowering of Vindolanda's civilian vicus and a long period of peace (and relaxed military rules?) on the frontier. As of now, this could be officially sanctioned rape and murder of a young girl. Or it could be an accidental death of an orphaned servant boy that was covered up by a few men in a barrack and who had no loved ones to miss him when he was gone.

Whichever it is, it's always sad -- but sobering -- to remember that human life in Roman times could be inconceivably cheap.

- Harry
http://www.wedigvindolanda.com

[Epictetus]

I did a quick search through the tablets and found a couple mentions of children.

In the commentary for Tablet 118 (part of a writing exercise, apparently), they say “While it is not possible to establish that this tablet belongs to the papers of Flavius Cerialis, it was certainly found in the same context and there is good evidence for the presence of children in the praetorium at Vindolanda (see VRR III, 45).”

[john m roberts]

I think I feel a novel coming on.

[mcbishop]

What do we know about Roman army practices for having younger people around?

Well, topically one could mention Michael Speidel's paper* (but you probably don't want to go there). There is, as we all know, nothing new under the sun...

*Speidel, M.P. 1985: 'A Marsacus as a horseguard's boy in Rome', Helinium 25, 254-7

Mike Bishop

[Ron Andrea]

I think I feel a novel coming on.

Good for you! I thought exactly the same thing.

[ParthianBow]

And me!

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

""I'm sorry to say that Vindolanda has probably produced another Roman murder victim."

This is simply ridiculous. As if all remains of Gladiatores and other murdered people do not count, or count less, just because it is a child..

Infanticide was normal in Roman society. Foeta left on dung heaps, newly born kids left in the woods for the wolves and what have you..

Ok so this girl was found in a barrack, probably tied hands, probably foul play... however since there were Gauls involved, no one thinks of human sacrifice?

It would be brilliant of course to see this as some form of child abuse or whatever. Fact is we do not know squat. So to put emotions with this find is absolutely ridiculous, especially when we disgerard all kids dying of hunger and in wars this very moment.

M.VIB.M.

[Matthew Amt]

As if all remains of Gladiatores and other murdered people do not count, or count less, just because it is a child..

Um, no one said that...

Infanticide was normal in Roman society. Foeta left on dung heaps, newly born kids left in the woods for the wolves and what have you..

Ok so this girl was found in a barrack, probably tied hands, probably foul play... however since there were Gauls involved, no one thinks of human sacrifice?

If she had been found in a sacred grove or bog, sure. But the article clearly states that burial in a settlement was completely illegal, so it's hard to interpret this as some sort of legitimate ceremony.

So to put emotions with this find is absolutely ridiculous, especially when we disgerard all kids dying of hunger and in wars this very moment.

Not sure I'm following your logic. We think the death of a child is a sad thing, but we should not do that because here on this *history* board we are not constantly bemoaning the death of *every* child today? Is it all right for us to discuss a fascinating find, and to show a little human reaction?

Matthew

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

No Matthew, i find the mourning of someone who will be exhibited in a museum ridiculous.

My comment was highly cynical.

M.VIB.M.

[Matthew Amt]

No Matthew, i find the mourning of someone who will be exhibited in a museum ridiculous.

Oh, okay, I guess I can see that. I still think a little mourning is a good thing. But the immortality of ending up on display is as good a fate as one could ask for, I'd say!

My comment was highly cynical.

Ha, yeah, I caught that! No prob, I have days like that too. Actually, I almost went ballistic on the revival of the "socks with sandals" thread, but decided not to bother burning everyone's ears with my biting sarcasm...

Matthew

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, as in all walks of life Matt, everyone unearths things from the past and rehashes them, from fashion to real life, and talks as if they were the first to do so... :wink:

[Ron Andrea]

Actually, I almost went ballistic on the revival of the "socks with sandals" thread, but decided not to bother burning everyone's ears with my biting sarcasm...

Matthew

Sorry, Matthew, I was the guilty party. It struck me as funny. I'd never seen it on any threads here before. Guess I don't get around enough.

As for the murdered girl, that sort of thing probably happened in every culture and period. (And the press will sensationalize it as much as will sell papers or boost ratings.) The Romans, who seemed so disciplined and orderly, undoubtedly were just as corrupt as us.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Also remember these were barely civilised barbarian auxiliaries.......ducks for cover and runs... :mrgreen:

[Metella]

Ooh, someone brought this to my attention before I was about to go on my work placement.
It'd be interesting to find out if it actually was a boy or a girl, instead of stating that they think it was one to try and milk a few 'awwrs' out of people. I'll probably try and visit the musuem to see it once it goes on display, money permitting.