01-03-2005, 04:50 PM
"Unfortunately, many of these still look to me like 'soldier fiddles with helmet'..."<br>
<br>
Thanks, Mike for your thoughts. However, I can't fully agree with you (and believe me, I'm not comfortable disagreeing with M.C. Bishop!). In every case, it would be "soldier fiddling with helmet while hailing, greeting or apparently receiving orders from a higher officer." I just don't think a sculptor or engraver would choose to portray a soldier "fiddling with his helmet" in those circumstances.<br>
<br>
Particularly in the case of the Ahenobarbus relief, you've got a definite exchange going on between the togate official and the soldier, the official saying, "you there, go do such and such," and the soldier replying, "yes, praetor!" At least that's the way it looks to me.<br>
<br>
The Mikkalus relief in particular looks like a definite "hailing" gesture to me, which is another way of saying "saluting."<br>
<br>
On the Gemma Tiberiana, the "hand creeping around" behind Germanicus' neck belongs to (depending on whom you believe), his wife Agrippina, who stands facing him while his children stand behind him (the little guy in armor would be Caligula, then!), or perhaps the goddess Roma or some other allegorical figure.<br>
<br>
I would like to see a close-up of the actual gem, as opposed to a drawing of it, just to settle what's going on with Germanicus' thumb-- is it going behind the helmet, as it appears here, implying that he is pushing the helmet forward, or just laying alongside the rest of his hand?<br>
<br>
T. Flavius Crispus<br>
Leg VI VPF<br>
CA, USA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
<br>
Thanks, Mike for your thoughts. However, I can't fully agree with you (and believe me, I'm not comfortable disagreeing with M.C. Bishop!). In every case, it would be "soldier fiddling with helmet while hailing, greeting or apparently receiving orders from a higher officer." I just don't think a sculptor or engraver would choose to portray a soldier "fiddling with his helmet" in those circumstances.<br>
<br>
Particularly in the case of the Ahenobarbus relief, you've got a definite exchange going on between the togate official and the soldier, the official saying, "you there, go do such and such," and the soldier replying, "yes, praetor!" At least that's the way it looks to me.<br>
<br>
The Mikkalus relief in particular looks like a definite "hailing" gesture to me, which is another way of saying "saluting."<br>
<br>
On the Gemma Tiberiana, the "hand creeping around" behind Germanicus' neck belongs to (depending on whom you believe), his wife Agrippina, who stands facing him while his children stand behind him (the little guy in armor would be Caligula, then!), or perhaps the goddess Roma or some other allegorical figure.<br>
<br>
I would like to see a close-up of the actual gem, as opposed to a drawing of it, just to settle what's going on with Germanicus' thumb-- is it going behind the helmet, as it appears here, implying that he is pushing the helmet forward, or just laying alongside the rest of his hand?<br>
<br>
T. Flavius Crispus<br>
Leg VI VPF<br>
CA, USA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
T. Flavius Crispus / David S. Michaels
Centurio Pilus Prior,
Legio VI VPF
CA, USA
"Oderint dum probent."
Tiberius
Centurio Pilus Prior,
Legio VI VPF
CA, USA
"Oderint dum probent."
Tiberius
