3rd century belt

[Marcus Mummius]

Salvete,

I'm planning to do some work on the 3rd century impression I'm building.

I'm looking into belts right now.

I plan to use these fittings for a baldric:



But I'm unsure what kind of belt would be best.

There were several types of belts in use in the early 3rd century AD. What type was most common?

One of my commilitones has a 'Utere Felix belt' so I would like to have something different.

Would a ring buckle belt be best? What components do I need and how can one best construct such a belt? I'm thinking it will be quite difficult to have the narrow strap(s) hang down smoothly like you see on depictions...

All help, info, tips would be very welcome!

Valete,
Jef

[Marcus Mummius]

After plowing through old posts on RAT I found a lot of info on the construction of Ring buckle belts.

I think I will have more than enough if I get a ring, two pendants for the end straps and two cuneiform studs. I love these belts

I have one big question:
what diameter should the ring be for a ring buckle belt?

Also, has someone got a good picture of the Vimose baldric, a picture that shows the decorative stitching?

Vale,

[Crispvs]

I would recommend having a word with Peronis.

Crispvs

[caiusbeerquitius]

The baldric pics and much more info can be found here:
www.donau-limes.de/
Follow "Ausrüstung" and the click onto what you´re interested in...

[caiusbeerquitius]

I forgot: The Numerum-Omnium-baldrics are quite prominent among reenactors meanwhile. I´d go for a different type. If you´re interested, send me a pm.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Or try this:


www.illerup.dk/documents/illerup_81.pdf

[John Conyard]

I remade my 3rd century impression last summer, making new belts and baldrics.

I used James' Dura report more than the bog finds. While some finds may have been of an Eastern nature, generally the finds from Dura are Roman. Finds from the bogs may show some "strange" influences, and often have two studs found with Roman style sword hilts. These are not found at Dura.

James would give you the diameters of the ring belt fasteners. Generally opt for a small one for everyday wear. But a second larger fastener is useful when putting the belt over padding and armour. That way the same waist belt can be used in all situations. Larger rings just increase the size of the belt. I used bone to make the small fasteners, but opted for copper alloy for the larger rings due to their strength.

James suggest the officers were wearing red dyed or painted belts. Everybody else used waxed or oiled leather. If you are using folded goat leather it may ned to be edged with sewing. Good quality cow hide shouldn't need it. But decorative tooling or stiching could look good.

James' report gives a whole range of baldric fittings, some of which were very simple. I also like the decorations which could be applied to the baldric. I think it is the decorations which can persoanlise your belt.

It took me a while to get the baldric to hang correctly. The "stud" should be at the same level as the sword hilt, while the end plate should be around the scabbard slide. At fist this seems too low. But it allows for the decorations to sit at chest height.

I allowed myself a little interpretation when tying the scabbard to the baldric. I used two small bone strap ends on the thin baldric straps, which hang down beside the scabbard. I copied these from Dura finds.

Needless to say I would love to visit Dura before I die.

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks for the helpful info, John!

I plan to use sheep or goat leather but doubled and sewn together at the edges.

John Coulston once told me during a lecture some time ago that traces of red paint are often found on the belts on the tombstones of 3rd century soldiers. I don't believe there is a strong case for red belts being exclusive to officers.

I'm planning to dye the leather on my belts red.

Vale,

[John Conyard]

I can cope with red belts, they seem pretty standard. James gives most of the leather belts from Dura as coming from goatskin. But I cling to the hope there were more cattle in Great Britain to justify my choice of belt leather. He repeats Kaplan in stating the leather was finished with beeswax as "a vehicle for the application of blacking". Although wax could have been used as a medium for other pigments.

A cuisse from Dura is made from red and black leather, and my versions are black made using wax and carbon. They "sweat" in very hot weather, leaving a slight black deposit on clothing.

Roman leather dying in Britian is a dark area for me. The Romans certainly could dye leather. Some soldiers probably had more than one belt, and it seems responsible that high status belts could be dyed or painted. I can imagine they could be shown on tombstones, as you state. May I ask which ones? However there are no finds of dyed leather from Roman Britain even though they would be easy to identify. Leather coloured with wax and pigment would be harder to identify. I'm happy with painting leather, but have not considered how a Roman would have aproached it.

Dyed leather has been discussed on RAT before. But I fear I can reach no definite conclusions about it.

[Marcus Mummius]

Roman leather dying in Britian is a dark area for me. The Romans certainly could dye leather. Some soldiers probably had more than one belt, and it seems responsible that high status belts could be dyed or painted. I can imagine they could be shown on tombstones, as you state. May I ask which ones? However there are no finds of dyed leather from Roman Britain even though they would be easy to identify. Leather coloured with wax and pigment would be harder to identify. I'm happy with painting leather, but have not considered how a Roman would have aproached it.

Dyed leather has been discussed on RAT before. But I fear I can reach no definite conclusions about it.

Hi John, I took notes during that lecture, and I should manage to locate them. Give me some time and I'll get to it

Dyeing leather red is indeed a bit of an enigma. I have some medieval recipes about dyeing leather with madder but it seems quite hard and it will take a long time to do.

[Peroni]

Jef,

There are many varieties of belt fastener and decoration for the third Century, not just plain ring buckles, but ring buckles with pins (like a brooch) and square versions with decorative motifs such as the Banasa buckle.

http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... Path=13_36

The Dura Europos report also shows the continued use of Antonine period 'Trompetenmuster' belt plates still in fashion (there at least)
You can just see one below displayed on the fourth belt down, far right.

These are also from the third century..

[PhilusEstilius]

Adrian I think the lattice types shown at the top are 90 degrees out in their configuration.

[Peroni]

Possibly, but 3rd C belts tend not to be depicted so wide (like in the 4th C). The one on the left has a hinge tube Brian.

[Marcus Mummius]

Oh, decisions decisions... :? wink:

The ring buckle belt seems to me the cheapest solution and appears to be very common if you look at gravestones.

The belts with more conventional buckles seem more straightforward to make and easier to get to function right.

The square version from Banasa is very nice too. I wonder if a long split tong with pendants could be used with this type of buckle too. The belt might be a bit wide for this...

vale,

[Peroni]

Not at all Jef,

Just taper one end of the belt strap in readyness for the two terminals.

This way one end (the short square end) is permanently in the same position, and the longer end is then fastened to the other toggle and passed back through the belt to hang freely. (See Graham Sumner's and Johnny Shumate's recent illustrations of 3rd C soldiers in AW magazine)