Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Roman battlefield found deep inside Germany
There will be first-hand information about the new excavations and the touristical infrastructure that is to be built at the Harzhorn:

August 21 st at Bad Gandersheim , the Gandeon cinema

http://www.gandeon.de/10.html

It says :
Dr. Michael Geschwinde and Dr.Petra Lönne will both be present bringing along some pics.
Admission is 5,--€

Greez

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply
I think this would be worthy of a "stop-press" ...
..... but in a press release of the Freie Universität Berlin (today 17.00 CET) Prof Dr. Michael Meyer has been presenting the newest spectacular find from the Harzhorn -- a Roman chain-mail Body armour .
Co-presenters were:
Dr. Petra Lönne (Kreisarchäologin, Landkreis Northeim)
Michael Wickmann (Landrat, Landkreis Northeim)
Dr. Heike Pöppelmann (Museumsdirektorin, Braunschweigisches Landesmuseum)
More (In German , but with PICS :woot: !) here:
http://www.fu-berlin.de/presse/informati...index.html
After a bit of more restoration it is to be presented at the Braunschweig Exhibition from Sept. 1st on.
I'm currently busy so this is rather a "Quick'n dirty un"

Greez

Simplex

The pressrelases coming in "hard & fast" Cool
Mo betta pics:
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/fotos...59220.html
Mo news:
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensc...16778.html
Siggi K.
Reply
Thanks Siggi, this is very interesting! Is it me or does the individual rings look unusually wide (over the usual 6mm) in roman context?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
Reply
Jyrki,
...as far as I'm concerned hard to tell without a scale or a comparative piece.
Maybe due to the perspective and/or the lense used with that camera. :wink:

Greez

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
"Da fun & games department":
NDR-TV Germany
Footage:
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen...rn221.html
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen...rn249.html
Pics:
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen...rn223.html

Enjoy

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
I would have preferred listing this in an edit to above postings, but since this is not possible ....

Here's small footage on the Location at the Harzhorn by a fan
Note -- no persons visible, this appears to have been on on a day "off-excavation" it seem.
No spoken commentaries. Just notes in German cut in sparsely.
BTW: The plastic spoons seem to indicate potential finding-spots.
(Where the indicators have beeped ?)
It's called "Harzhorn -- The excavation site in August" )
It's 3:57 minutes Long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5-rFCc5cRI

Greez

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
The trees seem all of a uniform size and not too large was/is the site a tree farm or logging location?
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
Reply
German "tree-farming" ?!
Might be an explanation.
For sure: The Harzhorn-area is no "nature parc". :wink:

Greez

Siggi

I think roman commanders and soldiers alike would have loved this state of german forrests. Cool

Radio feature in German (Deutschlandradio)
>>Audio On Demand
http://www.dradio.de/dkultur/sendungen/thema/2232566/
Siggi K.
Reply
Its the evening before the morning after !
Tomorrow its O-Day (Opening day) of the much-awaited exhibition about the Harzhorn incident at Braunschweig.
The local newspaper HNA givesn us a sneak-preview:
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/lande...84759.html
Pics only : 51 apiece
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/fotos...85097.html

Enjoy

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
well i am living in Celle this would be just 40 min away from Braunschweig, i wanted to go yesterday but of course we had to have guests I will be doing it anytime sool, will post pics when available
-----------------
Gelu I.
www.terradacica.ro
www.porolissumsalaj.ro
Reply
Lucky you !
My attempt to visit that exhibition will be more like an extended campaign
than a short visit-over. :whistle:
Anyway, ....... to wetten other people mouths and eyes (literally speaking :wink: )
here are the official press-pic from the Braunschweig Museum:
Their own material
http://www.3landesmuseen.de/Schlachtfeld...055.0.html
or
http://www.3landesmuseen.de/Schlachtfeld...946.0.html
What they got lended (amongst other things)
http://www.3landesmuseen.de/Leihgaben-La...025.0.html
and
"backstage"
http://www.3landesmuseen.de/Hinter-den-K...084.0.htmlDoes that look appetizing enough ? :woot:

Greez

Siggi
Siggi K.
Reply
Quote:Its the evening before the morning after !
Tomorrow its O-Day (Opening day) of the much-awaited exhibition about the Harzhorn incident at Braunschweig.
The local newspaper HNA givesn us a sneak-preview:
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/lande...84759.html
Pics only : 51 apiece
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/fotos...85097.html

Enjoy

Siggi

Are all of the finds on display from Harzhorn or are some borrowed from other museums? Some of them look very, very similar to finds from Illerup.
"Medicus" Matt Bunker

[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
Reply
well
last sunday i was able to visit the exhibiton, is impressive if you have the opportunuty to see it do it by all means,
unfortunatelly no pictures are allowed so I have none to share
for me the most impresive piece was the original frame of the Orsova ballista, and the reproduction (as inswinger btw).

intresting enough as well is the fact that it seems that the fight took place on the way back home, romans attacking from the North, this means that maybe somewhere up north there is another battle place, as Hist. Aug. supposingly places the battle in a swamp

cheers
gelu
-----------------
Gelu I.
www.terradacica.ro
www.porolissumsalaj.ro
Reply
....and .... BTW .... here we have the contents of the exhibitions' catalogue.
It's written in German so intranslated the TOC into English (or whatever my attempt ended with here :whistle: )
-- because I thought you'd like (or maybe not :mrgreen: ) to see what you're missin' out if you don't master thah beautiful mother-language of mine: ;-)
Alright here it is.

Inhalt/Contents
14 "Who cares" ?
Eine Ausstellung zu einem "vergessenen" römischen Feldzug nach Germanien
An exibition about a "lost" roman campaign into Germania.
Heike Pöppelmann

Archäologie des Krieges -
Schlachtfelder im Focus der Forschung
(An archeology of war - research concentrating on battlefields)

42 Asymmetrische Kriege (Asymmetric warfare)
Herfried Münkler

47 Schlachtfeldarchäologie (Battlefield archeology)
Schlachtfelder ohne Geschichte (Battlefields without history)
Michael Meyer

51 Schlachtfeldarchäologie
Römische Schlachten - archeologisch bezeugt.
(Roman battles - witnessed by archeology)
Thomas Fischer und Günther Moosbauer

57 Illegale Archäologie (Illegal Archeology)
Michael Geschwinde

58 Die Entdeckung eines Schlachtfeldes, das es eigentlich nicht geben konnte
( Discovering a battlefield that "should not be there")
Michael Geschwinde und Petra Lönne

65 Die Hipposandale als Initilafund am Harzhorn
(The hipposandal als the initial find at the Harzhorn)
Petra Lönne

66 Die Datierung des Fundmaterials (Dating the finds)
Ist es wirklich der Feldzug des Maximinus Thrax 235/236 n.Chr. ?
(Is it really the campaign of Maximinus Thrax in 235/236 AD ?)
Frank Berger, Michael geschwinde, Michael Meyer und Günther Moosbauer

71 Römisch oder germanisch ? (Roman or germanic ?)
Wer kämpfte am Harzhorn ? (Who's been fighting at the Harzhorn ?)
Michael Meyer udn Günther Moosbauer

"So lange wird Germanien nun schon besiegt" ("For so long now Germania
is being defeated") Tacitus , Germania 32,7

78 Rom und die Germanen (Rome and the Germanics)
Eine wechselvolle Geschichte bis zu den Germaneneinfällen 233 n.Chr.
(A history of fluctuations until the Germanic Raids of 233 AD)
Michael Meyer und Günther Moosbauer

85 Ein Legionärsdolch und das Militärlager von Hedemünden - Zeugnisse der frühen römischen Germanienfeldzüge nach Südniedersachsen unter Augustus ( A legionary dagger and the military camp at Hedemünden - witnesses of the early roman campaigns into Germania under emperor Augustus)
Klaus Grote

86 Ein Kultstab aus Kalkriese (A ceremonial staff from Kalkriese)
Heidrun Derks

87 Severus Alexander - der letzte severische Kaiser am Vorabend des Feldzuges nach Germanien
( Severus Alexander - the last severian emperor on the eve of the campaign into Germania)
Korana Deppmeyer

95 Rom -- Herrin der Welt (Rome -- ruling the world)
Zur Aussenpolitik der römischen Kaiser (On the foreign policies of Roman emperors)
Wolfgang Leschhorn

102 Mogontiacum/Mainz -- Legionsstandort und Verwaltungszentral Obergermaniens
(Mogontiacum/Mainz -- Legionary garrison and center of roman administration of Upper Germania)
Marion Witteyer

110 Maximinus Thrax - vom thrakischen Soldaten zum römischen Kaiser
(Maximinus Thrax vom a thracian soldier to a roman emperor)
Korana Deppmeyer

110 Gemme mit Maximinus Thrax und Sohn (A gem of Maximinus Thrax and son)
Friederike Naumann-Steckner

111 Auslöschte Geschichte (History erased)
Der Feldzug des Maximinus Thrax in das Innere Germaniens 23/236 n.Chr. in der historischen Überlieferung.
(The campaign of Maximinus Thrax into inner Germania of 235/236 AD according to historical tradition)
Martin Hose

116 Wiedergewonnene Geschichte (History regained)
Der Feldzug des Maximinus Thrax in das Innere Germaniens 23/236 n.Chr. in der numismatischen Überlieferung. (The campaign of Maximinus Thrax into inner Germania of 235/236 AD according to coinal evidence)
Reinhard Wolters

Germania Magna - Die Welt jenseits des Limes
(Germania Magna - The world beyond the Limes)
126 Germanien im 3. Jh. n. Chr. (Germania in the 3rd century AD. )
Eine Zeit des Wandels (A time of transition)
Hans-Jörg Nüsse

135 "Nach seiner Ankunft ließ er das ganze Land verheeren ...."
("After his arrival had the whole land devastated ....")
Germanische Besiedlung entlang des römischen Marschweges
(Germanic settlements along the roman course of movement)
Jens Fuhrmann und Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz

142 Leben und Sterben in Germanien (Live and Die in Germania)
Wolf-Dieter Steinmetz

148 Der Rohling eines silbernen Halsringes aus Dienstedt (Ilm-Kreis)
(A slug for a silver necklace from Dienstedt -- Ilm county)
Christoph G. Schmidt

149 Geographie und Umwelt in Südniedersachsen im 3. Jh. n.Chr.
(Geography and environment in southern nether-saxony in the 3rd cent. AD)
Felix Bittmann

155 Im Schatten von Adler und Rabe (In the shadow of eagle and raven)
Krieger, Händler, Verschleppte beiderseits des Limes
(Warriors, dwellers, displaced persons on both sides of the Limes)
Reinhard Wolters

161 Germanische und andere Götterbilder aus Oberdorla
(Germanic and other idols from Oberdorla)
Christoph G. Schmidt

162 Auf der Spur des Luxus (On the trail of luxury)
Die Suche nach den germanischen Eliten des 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(Searching for the germanic elites of the 3rs cent. AD)
Babette Ludovici

167 Der unsichtbare Gegner (The invisible enemy)
Größe and soziale Zusammensetzung germanischer Kampfverbände
(Size and social structure of germanic fighting teams)
Andreas Rau

173 Die germanischen Krieger und ihre Bewaffnung im 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(Germanic warriors and their armament during the 3rd cent. AD)
Andreas Rau

180 Verlierer der Geschichte (Loosers in history)

181 Germaniens kriegerische Götter (Germanias battlesome gods)
Alexandra Pesch

Krieg als Profession - Rom und seine Gegner im 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(War as a profession - Rome and its enemies in the 3rd cent. AD)
190 Das römische Wissen über Germanien (Roman knowledge about Germania)
Reinhard Wolters

198 Die Soldaten des Maximinus Thrax (The soldiers of Maximinus Thrax)
Die Einheiten und ihre Bewaffnung (The units and their armament)
Thomas Fischer

207 Ein bemerkenswerter Helm - der Adlerhelm aus dem Museum von Mougins
A remarkable cavallery helmet from the 3rd cent. AD -- the eagle-helmet from the mougins museum
Thomas Fischer

208 Maximiana - zu einem ehrenden Beinamen militärischer Formationen im 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(Maximiana - on honourable bynames of military units in the early 3rd century AD.)
Ragnar Hund

217 Militärdiplome - Abschriften römischer Bürgerechtsverleihungen
(Military diplomas - copies of roman grants of citizenships)
Barbara Pferdehirt

218 Schlachtreihe gegen Einzelkämpfer (Line of battle against individuals)
Die Wurf- und Hiebwaffen der Römer ung Germanen
(Weapons for throwing and slashing of romans and germanics)
Michael Meyer und Günther Moosbauer

222 Versunken in der Elbe (Sunk in river Elbe) -- Eine Schwertscheide aus Magdeburg (A scabbard from Magdeburg)

223 Osrhoener, Mauren und Germanen (Osrhoenians, Moors and Germanics)
Bogenschützen und Speerschleuderer (Archers and spear-slingers)
Michael Meyer und Günther Moosbauer

227 Die lorica segmentata (Schienenpanzer) (The lorica segmentata - a segmented plate body-armour)
Carsten Amrhein

228 Zur Bewaffnung und Ausrüstung der Kavallerieformationen Roms in der Zeit des Maximinus Thrax
(On the armament and equipment of roman cavalary-units during the times of Maximinus Thrax)
Thomas Fisher

235 Reiter Roms an Germaniens Grenzen im frühen 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(Roman riders along the germanic frontiers in the early 3rd cent. AD)
Rainer Wiegels

242 Torsionsgeschütze -- antike Wunderwaffen (Torsional "pieces" -- wonder-weapons of the Antiquity)
Günther Moosbauer


249 The logistics of a campaign and medical care
Christina Erkelenz

256 Das Leben auf dem Marsch -- römische Lederzelte
(Life on the move -- roman leathertents)
Fraser Hunter

257 Jupiter Dolichenus, Sol Invictus und Mithras
Die Glaubenswelt der römischen Soldaten ( The realm of belief of roman soldiers)
Korana Deppmeyer und Christina Erkelenz

265 Der Weg zum Harzhorn ( The road to the Harzhorn)
Michael Meyer und Günther Moosbauer

269 "...Schick` uns schleunigst Nagelschuhe, damit wir abmarschieren können. Sobald wir ankommen ..."
" ... do send us hobnail-boots ASAP, so that we can march off. As soon as we arrive ..."
Regine Fellmann-Brogli

Das Harzhorn-Ereignis -- Rekonstruktion einer Schlacht
(The Harzhorn-Incident -- Reconstructing a battle)
272 Relikte einer Schlacht (Remains of a battle)
Die Funde vom Harzhorn (The finds from the Harzhorn)
Michael Geschwinde, Petra Lönne unter Mitarbeit von Michael Brangs und Thorsten Schwarz

285 Die römischen Münzen am Harzhorn (Roman coinage at the harzhorn)
Frank Berger

294 Das Harzhorn-Ereignis (The Harzhorn - Incident)
Die Archäologie einer römisch-germanischen Konfrontation im 3 Jh. n. Chr.
(Archeological findings about a roman-germanic confrontation in the 3rd cent. AD)
Michael Geschwinde, Petra Lönne und Michael Meyer unter Mitarbeit von Michael Brangs, Torben Schatte
und Thorsten Schwarz.

311 Die dolabra vom Kahlberg (The dolabra found at the Kahlberg)
Michael Geschwinde

317 Hinter Schloß und Riegel (Under lock behind bars)
Yvonne Schmuhl

325 Von Pferden, Eseln und Maultieren (Of horses, asses and mules)
Silke Grefen-Peters

345 Eine rätselhafte Lanzenspitze aus Kalefeld (A riddlesome lance-tip from Kalefeld)
Michael Geschwinde

349 Römische Schwerter in Germanien (Roman swords about Germania)
Suzana Matesic

Triumph und Verdammnis (Triumph and Damnation)
352 Dis manibus
Auf den Spuren der Toten der expeditio Germanica 235/236 n. Chr.
(Tracing the deads from the expeditio Germanica from 235/236 AD)
Michael geschwinde und Günther Moosbauer


358 Die Reitergrabstele aus Stuttgart-Bad Cannstadt (A cavalarist's memorial stone from Stuttgart-Bad Cannstadt)
Rainer Wiegels

359 Vom Germanius maximus zum Staatsfeind (From Germanius maximus to enemy of state)
Korana Deppmeyer

366 Germania capta - Münzprägungen (Germania capta - coinage imprints)
Frank Berger

368 Die römische Germanienpolitik nach der expeditio Germanica des Maximunus Thrax
( Roman germanic policy after the expeditio Germanica of Maximinus Thrax)
Horst Callies

375 Die Stadt Aquileia (The city of Aquileia)
Paola Ventura

376 Das Grab 1 von Emersleben (Burial No.1 from Emersleben)
Matthias Becker

377 Verlockung, Bedrohung und Reaktion (Allure, threat and counter-action)
Rom, die Provinzwelt und die Germanen im 3. Jh. n. Chr.
(Rome, the provincial realm and the Germanics in the 3rd cent. AD.)
Bernd Päffgen

387 "Alles im Eimer" -- die Gräber von Grethem ("All in the bucket" -- the burials at Grethem)
Babette Ludowici

Caesaren, Helden und Heilige (Cesars, Heroes and Saints)
390 Caesaren, Helden und Heilige (Cesars, Heroes and Saints)
Der römische Soldat in neuzeitlichen Darstellungen ( Roman soldiers as displayed in modern times)
Alfred Walz

Anhang/Appendix

401 Glosar (Glossary)
404 Abkürzungen (Abbreviations)
405 Abbildungsnachweis (Reference of authorship for depictions)

Supplied "as is" -- as we say in the used-car con-biz. Cool

I may ( or may not) post comments -- as time allows for.

One thing first an foremost -- its a big supply of wisdom for the money, minor flaws nonwithstanding.
EDIT:
Reading through the CV of Prof. Dr. Bernd Päffgen (pp377ff) I'm really astounded that he should not be familiar with more recent publications on the (late!) dating of the fortifications of th larger roman settlements east of the Rhine. He doesn't even discuss them. This may have do to with a "early" deadline for his paper -- or not.
Here we have Bernd Reis, Nida-Heddernheim im 3 Jh. n. Chr. -- Studien zum Ende der Siedlung, Bonn 2009 (Widely enlarged version of his doctorate thesis from 2002/3)
[Nida-Hedderneim during the 3rd century AD -- Studies on the end of the settlement] where the author makes it clear that a lot of evidence supports his reasoning for a city wall
"in the first third of the 3 rd cent. AD" (p267) while more or less shifting this a couple of years later when rounding up old & recent research on the roman cities east of the Rhine. (pp271ff)
Alexander Heising's review of that very books (Plekos 13,2011, 27-35; available here: http://www.plekos.uni-muenchen.de/2011/r-reis.pdf ) adds some more references, namely in
footnote 10, page 34 :
1) S. Gairhos: Stadtmauer und Tempelbezirk von SVMELOCENNA.
Die Ausgrabungen 1995-99 in Rottenburg am Neckar, Flur "Am Burggraben". Stuttgart 2008
(Forsch. u. Ber. Vor- u. Frühgesch. Baden-Württemberg 104), 111 f.;
[The excavations of 1995-99 in Rottenburg/Neckar, field "Am Burgraben{=The Castle Trench}"]
2) E. Schallmayer: Ausgrabungen an der Stadtmauer des römischen Civitas-Hauptorts MED(|)/Dieburg.(Exvavations on the citywalls of the roman main setllement "MED(....)/Dieburg)HessenArchäologie 2007, 97-102.
I once followed a discussion with local archeologist-in-chief Dr. Britta Rabold at Ladenburg, when she was hinting towards the latter paper, mentioning that a terminus post quem at Dieburg was set at ca. 231 according to a "stratified" coin found in a cellar over which the city wall ran. It was then also when she carried on mentioning that for a large part due to the comparison of the way of execution of build and the sizes used for these walls, this would suggest that they were part of a building programme. Some folks would even suspect that these fortifications should serve as a rearward defence line. Well, and Dr. Päffgen should have contacted Dr. C.Sebastian Sommer, who was Dr. Rabolds predecessor and is now chief archeologist and in charge of the Limes-Informationszentren in Bavaria.
The fortified places include larger settlements like Frankfurt-Heddernheim/NIDA, Dieburg/MED(..), Ladenburg/Lopodunum (Neckar!),Bad Wimpfen/Wimpfen im Tal (on the Neckar), Rottenburg/Neckar--Summelocenna and more "candidates" like Rottweil/Neckar--Arae Flaviae , Baden-Baden /Aquae ...., Pforzheim-- Portus .... and recently under suspicion Stuttgart-Bad Cannstadt /Neckar.

Another flaw I easily "ran into" is Abb1 p79 where we have a couple of roman forts "on the wrong side of the river"and the double garissoned places are not marked accordingly
but we have the newly identified small fort at Duttenberg (while the other newfound place some kilometres north and of similar size has still not been "marked in").
I'd rate this a minor flaw especially when compared with the earler examples of "sloppy" mapworks that the Theiss-Verlag had been exhibiting in the past.

I repeat : Go and get it !
The big-scale pics from pp 18- 39 are a treat, especially if you missed out on the National Geographic magazines feature on the Harzhorn.

Greez

Simplex

As to mistakes : Finders keepers ;-)
Siggi K.
Reply
As it happens : Finally "Touristic Marketing" takes over.
(I have to admit I was tempted to write: Finally Big Grina Hollywood Romans :mrgreen: )
http://www.hna.de/lokales/northeim/endsp...cmp=defrss
Beautiful pics -- what else ?! :wink:

Enjoy

Simplex
Siggi K.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Roman medical service on the battlefield. Robert Vermaat 0 254 03-16-2022, 10:10 AM
Last Post: Robert Vermaat
  New Roman camp found in Germany jho 15 8,435 10-18-2021, 11:48 PM
Last Post: Simplex
  How many armor soldiers did the Roman soldier bring to the battlefield Leoshenlong 18 2,777 05-07-2021, 05:39 PM
Last Post: CaesarAugustus

Forum Jump: