Cavalry questions

[LegioIIavg]

This is not a specific roman question ( although it applies to them as well ). My main interest in roman military is the equipment/tactics of the heavy infantry but I watched an episode of " warhorse " last night in which Peter Connolly ( who's opinions I respect ) showed the horned roman cavalry saddle and said he didn't believe it was possible to have used a lance effectively before the advent of this saddle as the rider would be jolted off the horse by the impact.

This left me a little confused as Alexander's companion cavalry, not to mention the parthian cataphracts were obviously very effective. Did ancient cavalry actually charge and impact with lance ( without coming off ) or did they charge to close distance and then " stab " with the lance ?. Also as general question what line would a horse not cross ( ie : would charge loose infantry but not blocks of pikeman ) ?.

Thanks for any help as cavalry, though I find it interesting, is not my strong suit.

[jvrjenivs]

Also as general question what line would a horse not cross ( ie : would charge loose infantry but not blocks of pikeman ) ?.

We already discussed that question in this topic:
www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=23568

[Urselius]

Peter Connolly ( who's opinions I respect ) showed the horned roman cavalry saddle and said he didn't believe it was possible to have used a lance effectively before the advent of this saddle as the rider would be jolted off the horse by the impact.

This left me a little confused as Alexander's companion cavalry, not to mention the parthian cataphracts were obviously very effective. Did ancient cavalry actually charge and impact with lance ( without coming off ) or did they charge to close distance and then " stab " with the lance ?

The horned saddle seems to have dropped out of use in the Roman world some time, c.350-450AD, before the introduction of the stirrup. It was replaced by a 'framed saddle' of Eurasian steppe-origins with wooden boards which lay on the muscles on either side of the horse's spine and which were connected by transverse boards, pommel and cantle, at the front and back respectively. Presumably, this style of saddle had some advantage over the horned type.

Before the horned saddle a padded saddle-cloth was all that was available. It was used by Alexander's famed Companion Cavalry to great effect. These cavalry used the sizeable xyston, which was a thrusting spear (the prodromoi light cavalry were described as using sarissas!!), so a thrusting spear must have been usable on horseback with only a saddle cloth.

It must be remembered that war horses of the time were relatively small. The smaller the horse, the narrower its 'barrel' and the more purchase you got when gripping with the legs and heels. Also the spear had to be used with a flexed arm, all the shock of the impact of a thrust had to be absorbed by the arm and shoulder, if not you would be ejected off your horse. This meant that a large proportion of the forward momentum of the horse could not be harnessed to power the thrust, which was a definite shortcoming. However, it didn't prevent mounted attacks from being effective. The take home message is that the pre-stirrup, pre-horned saddle cavalryman had to be very highly skilled.

[John Conyard]

The steppe saddle is easier to make than the four-horned saddle, and a stronger design. And you ride with a straight leg, which certainly tires me less.

I think one difference with just a saddle cloth would be the speed of manoeuvre. Walking would be fine. Canter would be OK. But I would want to keep the trot to a minimum.

[Urselius]

The steppe saddle is easier to make than the four-horned saddle, and a stronger design. And you ride with a straight leg, which certainly tires me less.

I think one difference with just a saddle cloth would be the speed of manoeuvre. Walking would be fine. Canter would be OK. But I would want to keep the trot to a minimum.

I wonder if a pacing gait was used? That would make riding with no real saddle a good deal easier.

[John Conyard]

Good suggestion.

I was on a new horse last night, potentially a Roman horse for next season. She had a really smooth action, a real pleasure to ride. However she was almost as nervous as I was. Not a war horse, yet......