Petrol to hydrogen conversions (HHO)

[Dan Howard]

How about this video, which is a toy car that runs on hydrogen from water. But the neat thing is that the power to generate the hydrogen is from a solar panel. In other words, the hydrogen generation costs zero energy, sourced from the biggest free energy source in the solar system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94VHhQW6 ... re=related

It doesn't cost zero energy. It takes more energy to create hydrogen than the energy released when the hydrogen is recombined. It is far more efficient to simply use the solar panel to drive an electric motor. Where hydrogen is useful is that it can be stored for occasions when the sun isn't shining or when more energy is required than can be generated from the solar panel. Hyderogen is simply a fuel just like petrol, or LPG or ethanol, etc. The difference is the efficiency of the fuel, its methiod of manufacture, and how polluting it is.

[Tarbicus]

Solar energy is using a free energy source, referring to the last video I posted where solar energy is used to generate the hydrogen at the risk of repeating myself :wink: . The laws aren't being broken because the Sun itself is spending the energy, but it's still zero cost to us in practice.

[Dan Howard]

Don't get me wrong. I think this is the way to go. IMO the higher the price of oil the better. The switch to hydrogen will happen all that much faster. My ideal car is an electric one that runs on a fuel cell which uses solar cells on the car's panels to replenish the hydrogen. Additional range could be generated by adding Li-ion batteries and the whole thing could be topped up at night by plugging it in to the power mains.

[Tarbicus]

Dan, you know anything about this invention that's a bit closer to home?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7q ... re=related

[jsantell]

If you really want to try this get the Lindsay Books catalog. It has a book on the topic for about 9 dollars.

[Tarbicus]

Speaking of magnets as an energy source, this should raise the eyebrows of the guardians of the laws of thermodynamics - the Steorn device:

The story behind it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVG8XCWx ... ature=user
The unedited explanation and how they've challenged the scientific community given the hostility to their experiments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAk3tiaO ... re=related
Respected Engineer Validates Steorn Tech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jze97j7M1xo&NR=1
Someone's attempt to figure it out, where a 2 to 3mm movement creates rapid RPM in a rotor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yei0NMqU ... re=related

University College Dublin's video of the Steorn presentation to them:
http://www.youtube.com/user/UCDublin

And a shed load of vids on Youtube to do with this company:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... arch_type=

[Sean Manning]

Tarbicus, it would be wonderful if the Steorn device worked, but "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.â€

[Tarbicus]

I remember that Steorn's public demonstration was cancelled with little explanation, and nothing much is happening with their call for testers.

That's not what I've read and seen. They explained at great length that the demo went disastrously wrong after friction caused the ball bearings to fail and no more were available to hand (it's actually on Youtube in two parts), or something like that (a good 15-20 minutes explaining to the press immediately afterwards), and 5000 parties took them up on the challenge, with an estimated 1000 seemingly qualified. Up until the challenge only about 8 universities from the 100 or so they had approached had taken them up on the challenge until they went public with the advert in The Economist.

You can't get around the independent engineer who simply says it works, nor that they aren't accepting investment, etc, until the scientists who took them up on the challenge have published the findings and results (their financial reports clearly show no money has come into the company with rather startling deficit in the books). If you can debunk or expose the engineer as a fraud then go ahead, but he is supposed to be a highly respected one who seemed just as surprised. If you haven't bothered with any of the links I posted then I suggest you do.

[Dan Howard]

Dan, you know anything about this invention that's a bit closer to home?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7q ... re=related

Sorry Tarby. I have a dail-up connection so don't waste my time trying to download videos from youtube. Can you post a link to an article instead?

FWIW Randi is my hero.

[Tarbicus]

Sorry Tarby. I have a dail-up connection so don't waste my time trying to download videos from youtube. Can you post a link to an article instead?

Here you go, including a webforum that has a lot to say about the guys:
http://www.rexresearch.com/christie/christie.htm
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topi ... ;topicseen

FWIW Randi is my hero.

I like him, too, but the $1m has been around a while now and lost a lot of its value. It wouldn't cover Steorn's deficit, from what I can tell :wink:

Speaking of which:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/
http://www.steorn.com/

[Sean Manning]

FWIW Randi is my hero.

I like him, too, but the $1m has been around a while now and lost a lot of its value. It wouldn't cover Steorn's deficit, from what I can tell :wink:

Maybe, but it would sure help. And the cost would be negligible, so why not do it? Personally, I expect that they honestly think it works, but subconsciously doubt enough to rationalize themselves out of letting it be tested too hard ... like most dowsers. I also expect that is why they are selecting their testers. Alternatively, perhaps they hoped to get other busienss from the publicity of the "free energy" scheme.

A perpetual motion machine would appear to be inconsistent with so much other evidence about how the world works that we should be very skeptical of it (for the same reason that we would be skeptical if a Classicist claimed to have discovered proof that Alexander the Great was really an exiled Italiote Greek who overthrew Philip II in a coup). Although Steorn isn't asking for money, it is citing evidence that it can't produce (here), being secretive about testing and the details of their device, and making an extraordinary claim. Getting free energy from rotating magnets isn't a new idea.

[Tarbicus]

Getting free energy from rotating magnets isn't a new idea.

You might find these of interest, Sean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOl-W-BM ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCQlbWgH ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman

There are hundreds of these guys on Youtube alone, all sharing their work.

[M. Demetrius]

If it's possible to make a perpetual motion machine, it would be impossible to harness it, as whatever it was supposed to power would drain energy from the system, thereby reducing the motion. Energy can't be created out of nothing, at least not by humans.

[Sean Manning]

Hi Tarbicus, I've looked at a couple of those Youtube videos. One of them shows a Newman motor, a type 2 perpetual motion machine (the type which is supposed to produce more energy than it consumes, as opposed to the type which is just supposed to run forever once started). Joseph Newman first tried to patent his device in 1984. If it had worked as advertised, we would all be using them. I can't comment on the other, since I don't have time to research it or study how it appears to work.

Many sensible, educated people have been convinced by perpetual motion machines, devoting vast amounts of time and money to tinker with them and promote them. Its such a wonderful idea, and many seem to work if you don't investigate them too closely. I'd want more evidence than videos and testimonials to take one seriously.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

In the words of those eastern sages....

"you can't get, something for nothing, you can't get, freedom for free!"

Rush...late '70s