Belt Buckle and plates

[Tim Mathews]

Does anybody have any info on Late Republican period Belt buckles and plates? Just bought the osprey Caesar to Trajan for info specifically on Caesar's Legions, but it contained virtually nothing.

[Peroni]

To be honest there are not many examples to go by! (are there belt finds from Alesia?)

We have the early republican items from Castillejo and Numantia,and the Augustan period finds from Kalkriese and Velsen.

Both the Kalkrise and Velsen are quite plain plates (silvered) and have very similar buckles. No Dagger frogs from Kalkriese unfortunately, but the buckles are so similar it is reasonable to extrapolate that the frog would be also.

No apron features on the Velsen belt set, the picture below from Kalkriese of what appears to be apron studs and a strap end terminal could also be from cavalry harness. It is quite a commen shape for horse gear strap ends.

A two belt system was most likely to have been worn as opposed to one belt and a sword baldric.

Kalkriese..




Velsen..

[Tim Mathews]

Excellent, thank you.
The Osprey book 'Caesar to Trajan' mentions that by the Augustan period two belts were common. I take this as meaning prior one belt was used.
What are your thoughts or has osprey got it wrong?

[Peroni]

Certainly for the earlier republican period a single belt was worn.

An example of a sword from Delos and another from Vindonissa have small buckles to attach the sword to the belt.

[A_Volpe]

From tomestone and artifact evidence we're figuring the 2-belt style was popular from Augustus up maybe the Flavian period, notably with maille and scale-clad Romans.

From what we can tell from limited sculptural evidence, notably Domitius Ahenobarbus altar - that soldiers in the [Late] Republic were wearing only a single belt, with no apparent plates or decorations. It also "appears" (to me at least) the Republican belts were wider than Augustan 2-belts, being c. 2"+ wide, and seem to show (on Ahenobarbus) the belt with incised lines on the top and bottom edges. Whereas the Augustan belts appear to be c. 1" wide, with 1" X 2" belt plates, give or take on specific finds/designs. Then the "Imperial" belt, with c. 2" wide belt, c. 2" square plates shows up.

Also on the Aemilius Paulus monument, the soldier appears to also have this single, c. 2"+ wide belt, one can see the hole where a sword scabbard had been placed. It also appears there may be a little detail next to that hole that may point to where the buckle may have been, that, or it's just damage to the sculpture over time.

IMHO, the absence of belt frogs I think indicates it's possible that frogs were not used/seen until after Caesar ~ the sword (and dagger) may have been simply tied onto the belt from the suspension loops on the scabbards. Again on the Ahenobarbus altar, the soldier with his hand to his helmet, you can see his gladius on his belt, but I see no surviving detail pointing to any frogs, instead it looks like it's pressed right against the belt and to his side, which to me indicates it's strapped onto the belt somehow (like with a X with leather ties) Of course, that level of detail may not have been in sculpture in that period, or, any detail that was there has long since broken/fallen off.

You can see the Ahenobarbus and Paulus sculptures in Osprey's "Republican Roman Army - 200-104 BC" by Nick Secunda (Men At Arms 291)

also try here on Romanarmy.com, look under "Resources Gallery", and then "Sculpture"

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... temid,135/

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... temid,135/

Also, look on Matt Amt / Leg XX page for his idea on the belt, with a Glad. Hispaneis:
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/hispan1.jpg

(hope you don't mind me posting, Matt)

[Tim Mathews]

Thank you.
When looking at the Ahenobarbus relief I also have a question about the maille cape and clasp. Is the clasp a leather chord, and if so how would you assume it was attached? Sewn with thread or thong? Or some other hidden attachment? Osprey also stated that the shoulder maille had an outer covering of leather so that it could be painted. Is this a common belief? It looks like maille to me!

[A_Volpe]

Oooh, I never considered a leather chord/strap to hold the two sides of the cape/doubling together before - Worth trying I say! Although I want to say there is evidence of a metal bar clasp, that has a hole in the middle, which is riveted to the center of the shirt, and a slit in the bar on both ends, going diagonally up to the upper corners, which is then slotted under a rivet near the end of the doubling - Very similar to the [serpentine] hooks we see later.

If you try a leather clasp - I'd suggest cutting a horizontal slit in both ends of the strap, so you can 'button' it over the studs on the ends of the shoulder doubling straps - You could probably rivet the center of that strap directly to the 'sternum' center of the maille shirt, or, button it like the others, although from Ahenobarbus, it appears that strap goes underneath the doublings, and does not appear to be riveted to the center of the shirt ~ so you could probably sew or rivet to the underside?

I don't know about the maille being covered in leather, but I seem to recall notes that the maille may have had a backing on it's underside, so as not to chaff or get caught/snagged with the shirt of maille? (although I haven't had much of a problem with my hammata shirt (Find-It-Armory's) - but I also have the edges of my doubling and the bottom "hem" of the shirt lined with leather.

I think there is one reconstructed illustration referenced to a sculpture, that shows a Roman with maille that has what appears to be a leather covering on the shoulder doubling itself, and has a snake or some squiggly lines painted or whatever on the covering.

I don't know much more than the above speculation sorry.

[Tim Mathews]

That picture you refer to is in the Osprey book, caesar to trajan, and is based on the Ahenobarbus relief, and mentions something like these shoulder capes were covered on the outside with leather so as to allow for painted decoration, hence the snake design.
One of the pictures of the relief does have some very faint resemblance to the osprey illustration of a snake with a line verticle line through it, but maybe I'm only seeing it in the sculpture becasue I have the osprey image in my head?

The picture also appears to depict the maille cape clasp as being a leather strap. I have looked at the Relief and can see no studs etc, so it must be sewn on, either that or I just can't see anything. :?: