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Uwe,<br>
The helmet is virtually identical to the cupric alloy Aux. Cavalry F under Robinson classification except made completely of IRON!<br>
While this may not seem so extraodinary at first glance, it differs from the known iron "Niederbieber/AuxCavD-E helmets in that these all have applied Cupric alloy earguards, whereas these are forged from the iron bowl, exactly in the style of the Imp Gallic F helmets previously only known in cupric alloy. This helmet confirms a trend we are seeing as more and more helmets come to light, in that for virtually every cupric alloy "imperial era Roman helmet, there seems to be a near identical version in iron. The most spectacular recent example of this is the Gutmann iron version of the incredible Niedermormter helmet.<br>
<br>
Chariovaldi,<br>
<br>
Yes it is a private find, and unfortunately lacks a provenance, though this is not so bad in this case for we have a good idea of the period in which these helmets range. Most of these privately found helmets would likely have never been found through proper archaeological excavation, and I therefore believe that it is better that they are brought to light, even under these less-than-perfect circumstances, than to never be discovered at all, eventually rusting away to nothing.<br>
<br>
Be assured this helmet will be fully published scientifically in the near future. In fact, using the Gutmann collection as just one example, artifacts in private collections are sometimes published more quickly and exhibited to the public much quicker than many similar objects languishing for years in the storage areas of 'public', museums staffed by professsional archaeologists. Remember too, that some of the most important museums housing Roman military artifacts, such as the Kam at Nijmegen, was originally a private collection.<br>
<br>
We will never fully curtail this illicit searching. By outlawing it, you only insure that the objects will never be studied scientifically. Fantastic finds are brought to light all the time by private detecting enthusiasts in Britain, who report their finds to the authorities since they know they will be fairly paid if the museum wants the object. In the less-enlightened countries of continental, "Old Europe", important finds are secretly sold away on the black market, for the finder knows if he reports it, the object will be taken from him without payment, and he himself likely fined. This is the greatest tragedy, and largely preventable if the professionals did not have such a haughty attitude, much like the nobility of "old Europe" forbidding the mere peasants from hunting on their royal estates. It is good that there are buyers for these rusty military objects, for the private searchers will never stop looking for coins and jewelry of precious metals. At least now, with collectors, they may also sell their bits of military equipment that they otherwise would leave behind or later throw away.<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>...and largely preventable if the professionals did not have such a haughty attitude, much like the nobility of "old Europe" forbidding the mere peasants from hunting on their royal estates.<hr><br>
<br>
Dan you are right on about this! The rest of Europe is way behind Britain in this way. Britain does seem to be the fairest about such things. And remember, most of them DO think we are peasants. Certainly the academic crowd looks down its nose at us peasantly reenactors 'Tis unfortunate, but true. However not all of them and that is the small light at the end of the tunnel.<br>
Best, <strong>DMV</strong> <p>DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS<br>
<br>
LEGIO IX HISPANA<br>
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<br>
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=decimusmercatiusvarianus@romanarmytalk>DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS</A> at: 3/28/04 5:10 am<br></i>
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt
" A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton
" Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain
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I did receive a private appeal about this thread.<br>
<br>
However, "Capitaine" Cline (and her hobnails) see nothing particularly remarkable about it... yet. (General taunting of "ninnies" aside, but as I've said elsewhere, you sometimes have to make allowances for personality.)<br>
<br>
If we break into a general melee of nation bashing, that's another matter. But I'm hoping we'll steer clear of that temptation, and I don't have to break out the <em>vitis</em>.<br>
<br>
Say... Is there anything more (evidence-wise) to be presented about the Kalkriese controversy?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>
Cheers,
Jenny
Founder, Roman Army Talk and RomanArmy.com
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>Say... Is there anything more (evidence-wise) to be presented about the Kalkriese controversy?<hr><br>
<br>
Not to me, I say kill it mon Capitane...<br>
<strong>DMV</strong> <p>DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS<br>
<br>
LEGIO IX HISPANA<br>
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<br>
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.</p><i></i>
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt
" A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton
" Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain
[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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Naww... I think I'll leave it to die a peaceful natural death. The OT bit got restarted as a thread of its own, so we're back on track.<br>
<br>
Interesting debate!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>
Cheers,
Jenny
Founder, Roman Army Talk and RomanArmy.com
We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yes it is a private find, and unfortunately lacks a provenance, though this is not so bad in this case for we have a good idea of the period in which these helmets range.<hr><br>
<br>
That still leaves a site that hasn't been investigated properly. Yeah, right, the detector goes beep or whatever, dig in, get the helmet, s*d the rest. Hurray, I'm rich, now I can get the Gladiator Special Edition DVD...<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Remember too, that some of the most important museums housing Roman military artifacts, such as the Kam at Nijmegen, was originally a private collection.<hr><br>
<br>
Not a proper comparison, the former Kam museum dates from an entirely other era, when scientific archaeology was still in its infancy. And anyway, a handful of truly knowledgeable collectors who open their collections to the public don't make up for the great mass of objects that simply disappear in the (illegal) antiquities market. In some parts of the world, like western Europe, illegal diggers have to watch their back, but in countries like Peru they use dynamite to get at the goodies!<br>
And there, too, you have rich collectors or middlemen who claim that they are doing "good"...since the local archaeologists don't have the time and resources to investigate all the known or suspected sites properly.<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>This is the greatest tragedy, and largely preventable if the professionals did not have such a haughty attitude, much like the nobility of "old Europe" forbidding the mere peasants from hunting on their royal estates<hr><br>
<br>
There we go again. The evil European professionals. Of course, that most objects simply disappear in the private homes of geriatric plutocrats...oops, there I lose my temper, I mean, affluent senior citizens, and never see the light of day is OK. But I see that Robert has started a thread on the subject of private collections, so I'll hop over there and post future comments on this subject over there. <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Andreas Baede
wow! this is such a great thread, what a read!<br>
<br>
this totally fascinates me....<br>
<br>
<br>
hey if Germanicus was supposedly to avenge the loss of Varus and his ambushed legions...and secure the region between the Rhine and the Elbe, why wasnt it reinforced?<br>
<br>
Surely Tiberius could have seen that the borders would have been move secured this way (like Trajan and Marcus Aurelius)? <p></p><i></i>
„Germannic Holy Ground“ - was für ein Schmarrn!<br>
As if masses of Germans would now (the 19th century is over, btw) look up to Arminius as a great “heroâ€ÂÂ
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<br>
I assume Franka Potente ( ) will play Thusnelda?<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Today, most Germans are so uneducated that most of them don’t even know much about the whole story. And I bet that more than ¾ of the population have not even heard about Kalkriese. “Kalkriese??? Was soll das sein, bitte?â€ÂÂ
Andreas Baede
Quote:</em></strong><hr> I assume Franka Potente will play Thusnelda?<hr><br>
<br>
No she plays a Character named.... Franka. I thought she could be a girlfriend of a Legionaire (Sean Penn) and joining the civilians in the marching column (and she has to "run" again Franka would be the only "good Germanic" character (now, if that isn't political corect...<br>
<br>
btw, here is my 90% serious attempt to modify Tim's idea for a Varus-film, but nobody cared to give me any feedback.<br>
www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/76281<br>
<p>---------------<br>
<br>
<img src="http://home.nexgo.de/berzelmayr/hadrian.gif"/> Est vita misero longa, felici brevis.<br>
<br>
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>the movieposter is already there.... <hr><br>
<br>
Nice work, the German being from the Osprey book, and the <strong>Roman front line is from me</strong>!<br>
<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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'Tis but a parody, dear Valerius. Keep your dignitas... <p></p><i></i>
Andreas Baede
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>Hurray, I'm rich, now I can get the Gladiator Special Edition DVD...<hr><br>
<br>
You can get it now! I saw it in a bargain-bin for like $9.95. Next stop Wal-Mart $5.50 bin ;-D<br>
<strong>DMV</strong> <p>DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS<br>
<br>
LEGIO IX HISPANA<br>
NorCal Chapter<br>
<br>
Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze<br>
<br>
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.</p><i></i>
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt
" A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton
" Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain
[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>Nice work, the German being from the Osprey book, and the Roman front line is from me!>:<hr><br>
<br>
Oh Robert, chill out. It was quite funny! He forgot Britney Spears in soe role. If you are so serious all the time, you will have a stroke. Go with it.<br>
<strong>DMV</strong> <p>DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS<br>
<br>
LEGIO IX HISPANA<br>
NorCal Chapter<br>
<br>
Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze<br>
<br>
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.</p><i></i>
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt
" A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton
" Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain
[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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Hadrianus wrote:<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>btw, here is my 90% serious attempt to modify Tim's idea for a Varus-film, but nobody cared to give me any feedback.<br>
www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/76281 <hr><br>
<br>
Well, I for one wasn't ignoring you (since I found that contribution both interesting and amusing), but my plans to revamp the site, the script and (possibly) the discussion forum have been seriously delayed by a combination of work commitments and computer problems. I have been "off the air" for the last week while dealing with my home PC issues, though reading this hilarious thread when I can. I now have a new, wickedly fast PC and internet connection, despite major teething problems, and hope to get back to <em>Clades Variana</em> soon. The redesign of the site has required re-doing every page, so it is actually a pretty major job.<br>
<br>
And I like the movie poster a lot BTW.<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
<p>Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius<br>
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