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Staight wooden arms are wayyyy easier to make, Duncan. 
Ah, the little stand. Actually, I've been thinking about stands a great deal lately, and working with Randi on some ideas as well.
I think hand carried is a very appropriate way of thinking of this / these small machines. They dont weigh all that much, and do pack the kind of punch a hand bow archer can only drool over. Ship or boat mouted seems very likely to me, as well as perhaps a light stand (not a monpod like Emmanual is using) went along with the issue to the crew. I've made enough mortise and tenons at this point to know that while they are not that difficult, they are time consuming to do well. I was thinking of making a version with a small winch in back that mounts on a small stand. But that is conjecture in a big way, isn't it?
Dane
Dane Donato
Legio III Cyrenaica
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Just a little question, why not simply posing the catapult on the scutum ??? You have so your stand and your defence... Is it possible to imagine a stand fix on the top the scutum, like the medievals crossbowmen... For the weight of my catapult , It's about 5 kilogrammes... not far of modern guns. You can arm and fire easy without tripod.
I disagree with you, curved wooden arms, if they are little, are very difficult to do. It's the reason which I prefer to take the desciption of the whose of Vitruvius, who explain us all the way to make them with all the proportions about his foramen.
Titus Flavius Pupinius Rufus
Praefectus Fabrum LEG VIII AUGUSTA
Emmanuel Fourré
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Emmanuel,
Using the scutum as a rest or stand is a very good idea! How do you position your weapon when you are drawing the string and loading the bolts? I have found that thinking about how a soldier would have to handle a weapon can explain much about how it was probably made. If you have photos of the loading and shooting sequence We could learn a lot from them. I have concentrated on the larger stand-mounted Iron framed ballistas, but working with Dane on the wood-framed scorpions and manuballista has helped with my research. What time period do you intend your weapon to represent?
Keep up the good work.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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Quote:Just a little question, why not simply posing the catapult on the scutum ??? You have so your stand and your defence... Is it possible to imagine a stand fix on the top the scutum, like the medievals crossbowmen... For the weight of my catapult , It's about 5 kilogrammes... not far of modern guns. You can arm and fire easy without tripod.
I'd have thought that the men armed with these hand-held catapults were rapid-action light-armed troops. Wouldn't a scutum weigh them down a little?!
( Emmanuel, le manuballistarius (et quoi que son prédécesseur avec scorpion a été nommé) était dans toute probabilité un soldat rapide et léger. Un scutum est grand et lourd pour ce type de soldat, n'est-ce pas ?)
Quote:I disagree with you, curved wooden arms, if they are little, are very difficult to do. It's the reason which I prefer to take the desciption of the whose of Vitruvius, who explain us all the way to make them with all the proportions about his foramen.
I think we are all agreed that curved wooden arms are tricky to make!
( Je pense que tous consentons que les bras en bois courbés sont plus difficiles de fabriquer, Emmanuel. )
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Just a few thoughts to be added:
The one-piece Vitruvian central stanchion is ONLY an educated guess out of a possible reading of the manuscripts.
The Cheiroballistra arms, as described by PsHeron were straight. Diagrams of M and F are the closer ones to the lost archetype. P and V diagrams were re-drawn in Byzantine times (XIIth AD) in a more 3D style. After those, lots of derivations, each one more corrupt than the former. Please, don't do like Victor Prou did and search in that later hotch-potch for what suits which you want or need :wink:
![[Image: arms.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tribunus/arms.jpg)
Emmanuel, if you are ready to risk your beautiful machine for the sake of science, :wink: please twist your springs to the maximum, near breakage tension. That should be 'war-tension'. Try to cock the machine by hand and tell us. I think that 35 mm springs perhaps would need a winch, but that is only an assumption that SHOULD be tested 
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Thanks Aitor  lol: . I work direxctly in the greek text. I agree with you . The edition by Victor Prou is very "Beautiful" like somes research of the nineteen century. I use the edition of the matematici veteri of Thevenot.
Titus Flavius Pupinius Rufus
Praefectus Fabrum LEG VIII AUGUSTA
Emmanuel Fourré
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Quote:I Think that we are alone to have make an edition of the text of Heron. :lol: . I work direxctly in the greek text.
Hmmm ... I think you do my colleague Dietwulf Baatz a disservice. After all, it was his 1974 paper that finally brought the truth about the Cheiroballistra to light.
More recently, my friend Alan Wilkins (influenced by Eric Marsden) has made his own edition of the text, as has Christian Miks in Germany.
You are definitely not alone, Emmanuel.
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Sorry. I am happy in contrary because it is in having discussion with you that I can progress. I see the reconstitution of somes chirobalistes in a vey few scientificals papers. It's a dammage, because this catapult is very interressant. Are you sure that the manuballistor is alone. Don't we can see that they can be two One for the scutum and one for the catapult... It's just an idea ! If I can take some photography I post them. Can you explain me what kind of arrows you use.
Titus Flavius Pupinius Rufus
Praefectus Fabrum LEG VIII AUGUSTA
Emmanuel Fourré
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Edition or translation? :?
Edition should be of the Greek text only. As far as I recall, Dietwulf Baatz on his key paper only published a German translation. :wink:
Why Thevenot? He didn't knew of the Minas Codex... I'd rather use Carl Wescher's edition but, if you ask me, I think that the finest edition and (German) translation are those by Rudolf Schneider. Even if he was too busy trying to prove that the text didn't describe artillery at all, he couldn't help being the excellent professional he was! :lol:
![[Image: FotoGaleria.jpg]](http://www.cohorsprimagallica.com/imagenes/FotoGaleria.jpg)
I published drawings of the short missiles (all of Augustean date) on my paper abut the Cheiroballistra.
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Thanks Aitor, can you give me the references of the paper on the cheiroballistra. Is it the article that we can found on internet there is a few years. And excuse me, I speak of the Wescher for the Greek text.
Titus Flavius Pupinius Rufus
Praefectus Fabrum LEG VIII AUGUSTA
Emmanuel Fourré
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Emmanuel,
Yes, it is the paper published on JRMES, proceedings of the South Shields ROMEC and it could be dwnloaded form my webpage when it existed 
If you haven't got it, please PM your e-mail address and I'll send you the .pdf file
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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