Leather faced scutum

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

I'm in the throes of doing a new scutum with a calfskin leather facing and milk paint design.

Does anyone have any experience of using these materials and any pointers.

Do I need an undercoat before painting with the milk paints? if so, what? Limewash?

Should I put a sealant of some kind over the paints? again, if so what? beeswax? shellac.

Any pointers welcome.

[caiusbeerquitius]

If you want to use an animal skin facing use rawhide. Leather is rather soft and makes your shield far heavier than necessary. Also leather is easily scratched. milk paint does not adhere well to leather. If you use rawhide instead, the shield will be more stable while being lighter and the milk paint will adhere better if you cover the rawhide with a chalk ground first.

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

Thanks for the advice.

I had considered rawhide but the description of the Fayum scutum specifically says 'calfskin', so that's the route I've taken. Also too late hock:

[caiusbeerquitius]

calfskin

We´ll that´s just the right description. Otherwise it would most probably have been calf leather.
Anyway. Milk paint and leather don´t work that well together. Better go for oil colours.

[Matthew Amt]

Huh, that's odd, we've never had much trouble painting leather with casein paint, though now that I think about it we haven't done that many.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/scutum.html

No undercoat, since the casein needs a porous surface to adhere. (Hadn't heard about the chalk treatment before!) We've been coating ours with wax, but some types of oil should work as well.

I HAVE had problems with a rawhide facing turning a nice plank shield into a potato chip! It shrinks as it dries, with amazing strength, and if you don't know how to control it, you could very well end up with your shield folded up in pieces... While I agree that rawhide is more likely to have been what they used on shields in ancient times, I'm sticking with leather for now. The weight won't necessarily be any different--it all depends on the thickness of the leather or rawhide.

So now you have 2 completely opposite sets of advice from which to choose! Talk about open options.

Valete,

Matthew

[Matt Lukes]

I've had nothing but trouble with casein paint on leather- it cracks terribly so I ended-up abandoning the idea completely. The truth is that the extant artifacts have many facing materials: super thin rawhide 'parchment', just hide glue, just gesso, hide glue with possibly sinew fibers in it, or glue-soaked probably linen fabric, so there are many choices. The two (I think) artifacts described as having 'leather' on them are missing, thus no actual laboratory examination was ever done to show it was indeed tanned leather.

The Kasr al-Harit scutum (sometimes called Fayum) doesn't have any skin on it so far as I know- just felt remnants.

Polybius describes the scutum as having a calfskin outer layer, but I just discovered yesterday that there are some translations out there where the term leather is used where rawhide is meant- the one I have specifically talks about 'leather' "... rotted from the rain..." and since leather doesn't do that, rawhide does, clearly he's talking about the latter. So it seems the terminology wasn't particularly strict.

I contacted Dr. Simon James to clarify just what is on the exant scutum artifacts because he simply repeats the term 'parchment'. He confirmed that it is indeed VERY thin rawhide- on the order of 0.5mm thick- so parchment is literally what it is. He agreed that it's not likely to have been much of a structural component, but rather just another level of split resistence (he mentioned arrows specifically).

I'd expect parchment rawhide was not attached wet- indeed shrinkage on drying would be an issue, plus I simply don't believe it can be done with hide glue; I tried and the bond was no good. But being so thin, and given the scutum's surface is smooth, there's really no reason to wet the rawhide anyway.

[Marcus Mummius]

My brother has covered 4 scuta with a rawhide parchment facing until now. Hid glue was used to attach it to the linen covered shield blank. I know he wets them before attaching them because he does this in the bath tub and it smells quite bad :lol: :lol:

Rawhide parchment was found on several of the remaining shields of Illerup.

Vale,

[caiusbeerquitius]

I'd expect parchment rawhide was not attached wet- indeed shrinkage on drying would be an issue, plus I simply don't believe it can be done with hide glue; I tried and the bond was no good. But being so thin, and given the scutum's surface is smooth, there's really no reason to wet the rawhide anyway.

I don´t have a problem with that. The trick is drying the rawhide the right way, as well as watering it the right way in a dvance.

I'm sticking with leather for now. The weight won't necessarily be any different--it all depends on the thickness of the leather or rawhide.

As Matt said above, we don´t have an actual confirmed find of leather as shield facing. We do have rawhide though, and from different sources.
The weight should be more, since the rawhide we know was used is, just as Matt pointed out also, rather thin. If you´d want to use a 0.5mm leather, it´d be first of all hard to get, and secondly rather useless.

Also, look at it from a different angle:
Why do you want to tan leather? What happens to the leather while tanning, and which attributes does it have after being tanned? Which attributes does rawhide have? What is more effort to produce? Which has the attributes needed for a shield?

Since the ancients were well (IMO way better than we today are) aware of the qualities of the materials they used for construction, it seems to me quite improbable that leather was an otion for them to use in shield construction.

[Matthew Amt]

Like I said, I certainly agree that rawhide makes a stronger shield, and I'm satisfied that the analysis of the remains so far point towards rawhide or parchment rather than tanned leather. Yea, evidence!!

My one very small note of caution is that we are assuming that we know what the Romans' priorities were. What if they were more concerned that a shield survive frequent marches in the rain rather than the much rarer battle? I'm not arguing against rawhide, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to assume that leather is "pointless".

That said, where do you guys get thin rawhide or parchment? And--more to the point--what's it gonna cost me?

Thanks for all the information, and Valete,

Matthew

[Tarbicus]

My one very small note of caution is that we are assuming that we know what the Romans' priorities were. What if they were more concerned that a shield survive frequent marches in the rain rather than the much rarer battle? I'm not arguing against rawhide, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to assume that leather is "pointless".

How about both were a priority, hence the use of attested to, and occasionally found, leather shield covers to protect their rawhide or felt facings?

There's no getting around it - both confirmed facings were susceptible to the elements. Then there's paint directly on the wood IIRC (Dura also?).

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

Now my head hurts.

Because I took the translation of calfskin literally that's where I'm at. Aside from which, I don't know of any suppliers of rawhide/parchment of the sizes I need.

I have been trying to persevere with leather and milk paints. Progress thus far has been problematic. Four hours wasted painting last night as the paint crackled terribly :evil: A shame because the colours and design were looking really nice.

I'm gonna try scraping back to leather and start again but moistening the leather first. Hoping it will draw the moisture out of the paint less quickly and avoid the cracking.

Watch this space.

[Tarbicus]

I don't know of any suppliers of rawhide/parchment of the sizes I need.

Try bookbinding suppliers. Or cricket bat makers if possible in the US (they're sometimes faced with rawhide parchment and might be able to put you in contact with a supplier).

[Hibernicus]

Thin rawhide can be acquired as "drum skins"

.........

I've used bleached rawhide and unprocessed rawhide and prefer the more natural unprocessed rawhide. Hide glue works better with it.

I first place the shield onto a sawhorse.

I apply the rawhide damp.. soak it, let it nearly dry to the point where it remains flexible but not dripping with water when you squeeze it... next, apply glue to the face of the shield and then stretch the rawhide over the face of the blank..

I use a scraper or a wall paper brush to press the hide into the glue pressing the hide from the center towards the edges. (Use the same technique for the linen layers too)

In addition I lay a weighted linen canvas sheet over the face of the shield. It has pocketed sleeves around the perimeter filled with sand.

This does 2 important things.. it helps press the rawhide onto the shield and helps to prevent the shield from rebounding or flattening out while the glue and hide cures. I also let it cure for a good week in the sun.

Had very good results another time when it was very wet outside by using a portable radiant heater under the sawhorse.