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Quote:It will be interesting to see what happens when you test it a longer range, against the armor. Even if the bolt does not penetrate, I'll bet the impact will be horrendous!
I'll elect not to wear the test lorica, either way, although there are those who might want to persuade me otherwise.
If you can get even 100 meters range, the idea will be convincing. I'm guessing that like lofted arrows, by the time they get to a usual target, the power is supplied by gravity, mostly, anyway.
They did a similar tests with 3 pieces of metal (2 made with ancient methods, the third one modern) and a reproduction of the 'manuballista' of Xanten. And the results were pretty nice. The 'ancient' plates were far superior to the modern one. The tests were done by the dutch Museum het Valkhof, Nijmegen and the german Rheinisches Landesmuseum, Bonn. I have the report at home, so I could check the distance and other details this evening.
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Jurgen, could you post that info? I'd very much appreciate that.
Dane Donato
Legio III Cyrenaica
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Okay. Here it is:
There were 3 plates involved, as I mentioned earlier.
1) 1.5 mm sheet of soft, carbon free iron
2) 2.5 mm sheet of iron. Folded 3 times and hardened by cold forging, as the Romans did with the Nijmegen face mask helmets. (so it has 8 layers)
3) 2.5mm sheet of cast bronze (96% Cu)
They shoot with a reproduction of the Xanten 'manuballista' from about 7m.
Arrow specs: shaft length: 34cm, thickness: 15mm Conical head of about 35g.
And finally the results (maybe Jasper has some photographs of it)
The first sheet has a spot of 6mm deep, where the other two sheets only got a scar! The Romans surely know how to protect themselves!
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Euhm Jurjen, is this a typo?
Quote:1) 1.5 mm sheet of soft, carbon free iron
It seems a bit unfair to use 2.5mm thickness of the two and only 1.5mm of the other for such a test 
Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco
LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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If it is, it's a typo in both the Dutch as the German report. But I don't think the thickness is that important for the interpretation of the results. I mean, you saw the sheets yourself, last november.
And I almost forgot:
the arrowheads of the last 2 sheets changed form. The one of the first sheet didn't.
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SINEW ROPE : Not available anywhere. So everyone is using modern rope as a substitute Daniyal Steelcrafts is looking for a source in India but I have not heard back from them yet.
John
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From what I recall, the Xanten small catapult (perhaps calling it a manuballista is at least anachronic, if not a mistake) was rather underpowered, i.e. more cord could be inserted into the springs and the springs were under-twisted. Have they improved the springs for the tests?
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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I agree with Mummius. You can't do a comparation between two plates of diferent method of manufacture if there are'nt of the same gauge. We don't know if the more resistence is due to the manufacture or the superior gauge.
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Quote:They did a similar tests with ... a reproduction of the 'manuballista' of Xanten. ... I have the report at home.
Where was this published, Jurjen?
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It's in the book 'Achter het silveren masker/ Hinter das silberen Maske' about the new research on a couple of face mask helmets. (The 3 times folded iron is what they currently expect the helmet and face-mask of Kops Plateau helmet 1 were made of)
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I have heard that mini (souvenir) American baseball bats are the right size and shape to make bolts for some machines.
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One of these Finnish made machines would be a good addition to my Finnish Weapons collection. ( All in the photos are [SA] SUOMI (finland) Army stamped.
(The SUOMI (which is how this model Finnish Submachinegun is known in the US) is an dummy weapon with mostly real parts)
You should brand a [SA] on your machine - It would be a fun marking!
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Nice collection John. All in working order I imagine? 8)
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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i want one of these desperately, anyone building selling? fabulous work i must admit. if i had a workshop, garage or the like id give it a go myself. still working on the rest of my kit but would one day like to aquire a scorpio for sure
-Jason
(GNAEVS PETRONIVS CANINVS, LEGIIAPF)
"ADIVTRIX PIA FIDELIS"
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It's SUOMI, not SOUMI, and it doesn't mean any dummy weapon, it's how we call our country in finnish, thank you.
Yes. my name really is Pekka
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