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12-13-2003, 12:21 PM

Was a centurian from this legion in charge of the crucifixion 
of Yeshua?

Luca · 12-13-2003, 03:52 PM

According to John's Gospel there are two different possibilities: 
from "a legio" or from the Praetorian Cohors of Pontius Pilatus. 
This kind of detail is not explained by John, but recent studies (Farinella - 2002) seems to give more probability to the pretorian guard.

Matthew Amt · 12-13-2003, 05:24 PM

Ave! 
Since there were no legions posted in Judea at this time, it's not likely that this centurion was from Legio X Fretensis. I haven't read the studies that Luca refers to, but my guess is that the soldiers doing the job were the local auxiliary garrison. Not sure if Pilate's guard unit would have been called "praetorians", but I suppose it's possible they did the job. Crucifixion isn't exactly a choice duty, however, so I'd lean more towards the regular garrison being tasked with it. 
 
Now, some auxiliary centurions were men transferred from legions, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to assume this guy is from X Fretensis even so. 
 
Vale, 
 
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX

Nathan Ross · 12-13-2003, 05:34 PM

As far as I know, at the time of the crucifixion X Fretensis was garrisoned in Syria, and had no connection with Pilate or Judea. I believe this idea comes from the fact that, after the Jewish Revolt and the destuction of the city by Titus, Fretensis was moved to Jerusalem as a permanent garrison, building a large camp (possibly on the ruins of the Temple) and thus leaving a lot of building debris (rooftiles and lead pipes, I think) marked 'X Fret'. This was not until 70AD though.

02-28-2004, 03:37 PM

Would Auxilia have been local recruits? If so, would they have been speaking Latin or Greek?

Daniel S Peterson · 02-28-2004, 05:21 PM

Yep I have one of those X Fretnsis tiles I picked up in Jerusalem after the Gamla dig. 
 
I would agree with Matt tht the execution party would have been auxilliaries. There is some evidence of a "citizen cohort" in the environs at the time of Christ, but most would have been from the Eastern part of the empire. There are douments of a Thracian cohort from a slighly later period, and Greek is used exclusively in these writings. 
 
Several Roman records show soldiers on 'detached service' from their units to work somewhere else. I have little doubt there would have been a few legionaries serving in this capacity on the staff of Pilate, but certainly not for execution details. 
 
Dan

02-29-2004, 06:54 PM

Dan, just wondering about your statement that legionaries attached to the staff of Pontius Pilate would not have been involved in execution details. 
The Governor of Britain had speculatores on his staff. The name of one, Celsus of the II Augusta, is known from a grave inscription. Going on this, it seems possible the Governor of Judaea would also have had detached legionaries serving in this capacity. And wasn't one of the speculatores duties, amongst other things, the execution of condemned prisoners?

Daniel S Peterson · 02-29-2004, 07:07 PM

Anaten, 
Since there was a permanent garrision in the Antonia, even when Pilate was not in Jerusalem, I merely assumed the would be more than capable for this function. I would more likely thought he would reserve Roman citizens on his staff for more administrative type duties, but who can really say? Simply becasue of the rioutous state of affairs, in Pilates shoes I would have tended to use more 'expendable' non-citizen auxilliaries for what might be a dangerous assignment. After all, if they were killed, it probably meant "less paperwork" to fill out, than if Roman citizens were killed. 
Dan

02-29-2004, 07:47 PM

If these were auxilliaries(local guys,Syrians), what would they look like? Armed and armoured in the Roman fasion?Or more Eastern? 
Johnny

02-29-2004, 11:41 PM

My belief is that auxiliaries had the same armaments are legionaries. I checked the new OCD entry on auxiliaries at Borders yesterday. It said some auxiliaries volunteered but most were drafted. Prefect is a military rank and was the title given to commanders of auxiliaries. How many cohorts of auxliaries did Pilate command? An auxiliary cohort, according to OCD, had about 500 men. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=aschyltus>aschyltus</A> at: 3/1/04 12:43 am

aitor iriarte · 03-01-2004, 05:44 AM

Hi folks, 
Graham Sumner has asked me to post this: 
 
Garrison of Jerusalem. (See also Thread on Mel Gibson's movie in References and Reviews) 
 
The garrison of Jerusalem at the time of the arrest of Saint Paul was a Tribune, Claudius Lysias. Acts 23:10-26 The commander of an Auxiliary Cohort of 500 men was normally a Prefect. Therefore Claudius Lysias either commanded a 1000 strong Cohort or was in charge of a 500 strong Cohort of Roman Citizens. 
 
Cornelius The Centurion of one such Cohort, the 'Italian', was on detached duty at Caesarea. Acts 10:1 
 
Another Centurion, Julius, attached to the 'Augustan' Cohort was responsible for escorting Paul and some other prisoners to Rome. Acts 27:1 
 
Graham

Daniel S Peterson · 03-01-2004, 05:46 PM

Aschyltus, 
The sculptor of Trajans column, and and the praetorian pillar bases at Mainz (just to mention two examples), went to a lot of trouble to differentiate auxilliaries from legionaries. I believe that at least in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD they were deliberately equipped in an inferior fashion to guarantee they could not stand against the legions in formal battle should they decide to revolt. Also, they were clearly used more in roles of screening and reconnaissance than legionaries, and therefore generally equipped lighter. 
 
Dan

Crispvs · 03-01-2004, 09:25 PM

The Mainz column bases are not conclusive. The running figure with the simple(?) helmet and oval shield throwing one of his three spears/javelins is not attested as an auxiliary. We recognise him as one because we believe his equipment to be that of an auxiliary and because it differs from the equipment of some of the other figures (there is also a worn one which is not normally published which has a dished oval shield and seems to be thrusting underarm with either a sword or spear). The flaw with this is that it means that we are assuming that we have a perfect knowledge of how Roman soldiers were equipped. Whilst it is likely that this figure represents an auxilliary we cannot be absolutely sure of this and it is still possible that he may be simply a legionary with different equipment. Without an inscription there is no way of knowing one way or the other. 
 
Looking at the Rhineland tombstones it is difficult to accept that there was any difference between the equipment of legionaries and auxiliaries past the type of shield or shafted weapon carried. The well known reference by Tacitus to the mixing up of arms by Vitellius' panicking soldiers does make you wonder though. But then again, perhaps things were different in Rome. 
 
Crispvs

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