Legionary & Auxilia Chain Mail

[griffin]

Quote:
There's still something else going on in the right shoulder area that isn't either the pteruges or the baldric though.


...sorry, Adrian, not sure what you are referring to here? Could you elaborate?

I see what Adrian is referring to... There is a vertical band of something that the pteruges are sticking out of. I would expect more mail, but it looks like either a thick edging or a mail doubler.

1 edit for typos.

[Paullus Scipio]

....thanks Michael - I would interpret that 'armpit' line as a leather edging or similar to the mail at the armhole....I don't think there is enough to suggest a 'doubler' of any kind

[Dan Howard]

People continually underestimate the influence of fashion on armour design. IMO the only reason that the hamata had shoulder doublings is because it was the current fashion.

Perhaps it arose out of other needs, but then became the norm, or as you said, it became fashionable to have them.

Nah. They were just copying the Greeks. The initial "linothorax" design may have had a practical intent for linen shoulder doublings but not once it was copied in mail.

[arklore70]

I just went through all the pictures from the LEG VIII web site which has some really great Hi Resolution pictures and exceptt for about one case that is already shown here, I do not see any doublers on the hamata.

http://www.leg8.com/Musees/Adamclisi_02.php

What do we think was the standard issue hamata then say for 43 AD and 105 AD for the basic Legionary or Auxilia or is it we simply don't really know or care to speculate.

V/r
Mike

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Wow, one of them shows a soldier wearing a squamata with a manica! Very interesting!

[Paullus Scipio]

The Legio VIII website has some good photos, including the two Peroni and I posted, but they do not show all the metopes......

To answer your question,Mike, the impression one gets from the monuments and tombstones, is that throughout the first and second centuries AD the 'doubler' type is gradually superceded by the 'simple' variety for both legionaries and auxiliaries, including cavalry...but as Peroni posted, the 'doubler' and 'cape' type seem to last into the mid-second century before disappearing.

Turning now to the question of wearing swords right or left, I went through the metopes, and we have Senior Officers wearing swords both ways ! Praetorians and singulares on the left, legionaries and musicians ( in 20 or so scenes) invariably right side, standard bearers right side, save for two unarmoured vexillifers in one scene who have them on the left, and auxiliaries and cavalry, including a standard bearer, who invariably have them on the left .....

Incidently, both 'Mainz' and 'Pompeii' type swords are clearly depicted....

[arklore70]

Paul,
I agree that both "Mainz" and "Pompeii" style gladii are displayed based on the metopes.

A bit off subject, but is there anyplace on the web that has all of the metopes available for viewing?

Mike

[Paullus Scipio]

Not that I'm aware of, Mike....does anyone else know of such a site? There are 50 or 51 metopes(including the missing ones).......

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

So is this a definate no doublers after the middle of the second cent? Would there not have been the few diehards who clung to the old 'fashions'?

[madoc]

What do we think was the standard issue hamata then say for 43 AD and 105 AD for the basic Legionary or Auxilia or is it we simply don't really know or care to speculate.

Got asked this question again at the weekend's event.

Our answer is, as people have already stated here, that there was a change sometime in the late first century from doubled to undoubled mailshirts. Whether this was a cost saving measure (you'd get 5 mailshirts undoubled for the price of four doubled ones), a final recognition that the protection value vs the added weight just isn't worth it or that the "fashion" changed is not known.

In any event, given the conservatism in the roman army, then older, doubled, mail shirts would surely continue in use by existing soldiers that valued the little bit of extra protection. Old, doubled, shirts would be continue to be recycled until worn out or someone removes the doubling.

It's hard to know, but I'd reckon this was cost saving measure .....

[sulla felix]

Some reconstructed hamata have a removable doubler, attached at the back via buckles. Maybe added to the flexibility? Not sure on the authenticity of those though!

[Peroni]

Some reconstructed hamata have a removable doubler, attached at the back via buckles. Maybe added to the flexibility? Not sure on the authenticity of those though!

There's a few lumps of mail in the Colchester Museum from the Iron age Lexden site. (So not a Roman shirt). It contains buckles. Whether they were for the attachmrent of a doubling layer for the shoulders or whether they were for fastening the shirt up at the side is not known.

[sulla felix]

Thanks for posting the picture Ade - interesting thought about mail shirts possibly being buckled at the side(s). One other thought - a detachable doubler makes putting a complete mail shirt on a little easier, although you would need some assistance to buckle up the doubler?

The iron age mail from Sheepen looks like a very small diameter link Ade? Is the context of the find Late Pre-Roman Iron Age or are we talking 1-2 hundred years before the Roman Invasion?

[Peroni]

It was dated to about 10BC IIRC. It was from a very well-to-do burial, so the mail could well have been 'handed down' a few generations.

There are artifacts in the Lexden tumulus that are from the bronze age! A palstave axe IIRC.