Bearskin or wolfskin?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, if an animal has been culled, for safety reasons, or to stop over population in an area, it would be a real crime to just incinerate the pelt...
but to make a market of deliberately poached endangered species, well that would be plain stupid on our part.....(not that I think anyone here would do that) but I know coyotes are running in packs across alberta, and wolves and bears..........that does'nt strike me as an endangered population, and would be a good substitute for wolf....but who can say?
I have been gone for a long time :roll:

[Crispvs]

I think that the Spanish bears are probably similar to ones the Romans may have used. After all, they did spend quite a lot of time on the Iberian peninsular. I believe that the Spanish government does conduct official bear culls but I have always been led to believe that they burn the carcasses. Perhaps one of our Spanish members might be able to comment and perhaps help.

Crispvs

[Caius Fabius]

Waste not.
When we kill cattle (my livestock can trace roots back to North African cattle and Spanish cattle from Roman times) we save the hide, bones, and all except the blood that hits the ground. The number of North American bears killed by the side of the road as you drive along I-40 through Tennessee is amazing. I often stop and harvest roadkill, although not the meat. Some animals are killed because they are a danger to man or choose to prey on livestock instead of other food sources.
I don't have a problem with using their hides. One group has a lion skin that can from a zoo, after the natural death of a lion. Waste not.

Sourcing? Sub-species is important, but probably not as important as actually not using a coyote or wolf when the Romans used bears or big cats.

Think about it.. the swords and helmets most people use come from India, by way of American and Russian metal factories, which provided the ships and tanks being cut up in Indian scrap yards to turn into our coolus or gallic helmet or pugio and gladius blades. The cloth most reenactors wear did not come from Roman era breeds of sheep, there has been a lot of managed evolution in wool bearing sheep breeds. (Most Roman reenactor tunics seem to have been machine woven as well...)

((BTW, the wonderful tunic material from Poland, is hand woven with hand dyed clavii, but the sheep have been genetically altered in the past 2000 years by managed breeding for better wool production.))

American Bears, British Bears, Ukrainian Bears, Lithuanian Bears, German Bears... A bear skin is still better than a species which was not used by Romans. Kangaroo skin headdresses on standard bearers is right out!

...... next we'll have to use only actual human (Briton) heads for our Batavian soldiers head collection displays.

:lol:

[marsvigilia]

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the "European Bears Only" was meant tongue in cheek. I think you boys have been had.

[maius]

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback!

I wasn't sure about the use of wolfskins vs. bearskins, but it seems that using a bearskin for a vexillarius or signifer impression is the correct way to go.

Joel, let me know what you find out next time you visit Idaho.

Maius/Bill

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Peroni wrote:
If you go for a bear pelt, make sure it isn't a native American species! The Romans didn't have access to them!

Brian Wrote..
But wouldn't a Roman have used pelts from whatever area they were in at the time?

Yes Brian, but I can't think of one shred of evidence to suggest that the Romans ever made it to North America!

.... Stick to European species (brown bear) if at all possible! :wink:

Peronis, I think European bears are a little on the scarce side, and importing furs into the US would probably be illegal.....
As it is just as illogical to import european leather to america, when they have an ample supply of their own, I would think the use of american brown bear pelts should be acceptable. Also, I think they have/had black bears here in Europe too :?:

[Gaius]

Yes, i think that most of the trade on European brown bear must be illegal; and the American brown bear is just the same species than the European.

[maius]

So then, a black bear pelt would be incorrect?

Maius/Bill

[M. Demetrius]

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the "European Bears Only" was meant tongue in cheek. I think you boys have been had.

Ok, 'fess up, Fr. Peroni, are you yanking our chains, or not?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I had that feeling too, but he is probably too busy pissing him self to reply!! :evil: (that is a term fro laughing at us, for those who think it means having a urinary problem)

[Tarbicus]

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/tourism/trentino/
(Bolzano, Italy) "....is this area, with plenty of area dedicated to wildlife preservation that is one of the last refuges of the European black bear."

The North American black bear is a relative of the European Black Bear:
http://safety.eas.ualberta.ca/node/13

http://www.livinginthesun.com/src/greece/country.htm
(Greece) "...The wildlife includes boar, European black bear, lynx, jackal, chamois, deer, fox, badger, weasel, rabbits and hedgehogs."

Czech Republic has two of these bears in its zoo:
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Eu ... -BR-7.html

This blogger saw three in a US show:
http://rolandlh.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html

http://nanaanna.blogspot.com/2005/09/county-clare.html
Apparently, the European black bear was/is the size of a dog or sheep. That's interesting - perfect for hanging from your helmet! :wink:

It's quite stunning how the web has virtually no references to it :?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Good links Taarbuck!

[M. Demetrius]

It's quite stunning how the web has virtually no references to it

The bears found out Roman reenactors were looking for them and deleted all the links. Drat! Now that bears can use the Internet, there's no telling what will happen next. Yep. Next, they'll be hunting for US! Glad I don't live in Europe now.

[Titus Aetius]

Excuse me, but not everyone lives in the US (alas)..., so I' d like to ask whether some of you know fur- and hidesources in Europe. Something like the "Moscow-site" would be real great; but I'm afraid I'll allready have to be happy with minor dealers (if there are any out here).

[Peroni]

No Byron I wasn't taking the p**s!
Simply 'Grizzly' furs would not have been native to Europe.