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Interesting. I don't suppose you can cut up the fabric so that you can rotate each layer by 45 degrees to see if that improves damage resistance. I am thinking that it will improve resistance dramatically.
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hoplite14gr
But with just folded cloth, it seems to me you are not necessarily accounting for either the effects of the glue or the bronze scales/plates/etc that were typically part of a linothorax.
Paul Klos
\'One day when I fly with my hands -
up down the sky,
like a bird\'
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Quote: I think someone covered this ground earlier on this thread. Apparently, the armour was LESS resistant to penetration when glued together. I was also under the impression that scales/plates were NOT typically fitted to linothorakes, except on the right hand side. Scale or plate reinforcement is certainly not apparent in much of the art. Given Stefanos' recent experiment and others reported elsewhere on the forum, I can see why they wouldn't have bothered.
As far as art goes, at best it allows that various kinds of scale (or similar reinforcements) existed. Even a broad and comprehensive survey of art would still be relatively useless as evidence for usage rates, since the sample is fundamentally flawed; and even if it was not we are looking at what artists chose to represent not what was necessarily most common or typical.
Could you give me a pointer to “Stefanosâ€ÂÂ
Paul Klos
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like a bird\'
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I was prompted to try this after Jason and others posted their attempts and speculations about unglued material.
What understood is that 8 layers are not enough. You need 15 minmum to be safe. You do not need glue if you sew the layers properly. I held my pieces together with haphazard stiching. This in my opinion needs more research - they way the were stiched.
So here is a list of speculations and questions:
Is there any chance that a combination of leather or hide was used along with the linen layers?
If they used less than 15 then, is it possible that they tried to compensate with bronze?
If I recall correct it was raisin glue that "hardened" the staff. Has any body tried "flour-glue"?
Based on my experience I will post my speculations about weapons use in the tactics thread.
Kind regards
[quote="conon394As far as art goes, at best it allows that various kinds of scale (or similar reinforcements) existed. Even a broad and comprehensive survey of art would still be relatively useless as evidence for usage rates, since the sample is fundamentally flawed; and even if it was not we are looking at what artists chose to represent not what was necessarily most common or typical.
Could you give me a pointer to “Stefanosâ€ÂÂ
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Salimbeti posted a week or so ago that part of a linothorax has been found at Thebes. He thinks that it consisted of at least 10 layers but could be as many as 15 layers. The fragment still had part of the border attached so it was more likely to have been a linothorax rather than a folded bolt of cloth. It increases the likelihood that the fragment found at Mycenae was also from a linothorax. It also puts another nail into the coffins of those who still think the linothorax was made from leather or linen-covered plate.
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Side issue: Stefanos' experiment makes me think that modern kevlar body armour can be strengthened by doing the same thing - rotating each layer by 45 degrees. Does anyone know if this has been tried?
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Regarding stitching. The closer the rows, the stiffer the end result. If you look at modern kendo armour the rows of stitching are closest together on the stiffest areas. You can vary the properties of the armour just by modifying the way the quilting is done.
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30 layers....Hmmm. Well it is a possibility.
So far the reanactors approach to the Greek linothorax is 15 layers.
The Bronze age fragment is 15.
Taking the conservative approach I say 15 but no one can possibly rule out 30 with certainty. Has any one tried linothorax more than 20 layers?
Kind regards