Legio XXI prepping for SCA Warfare

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Felix and Hibernicus:
I was hoping you'd both jump into this. I gave myself eyestrain going through the information and web albums you supplied. Thank you both greatly!

TITVS:
... actually I photoshopped my face onto it (albeit badly)... sorry mate :oops: Consider it changed to the rather generic centurion helmet clip art thingy till I get a picture of myself. Anyone ever tell you that you kind of look like Lucious Verenus off of Rome?

Dominvs:
No slight taken... When I said the Atlantic, I kind of meant the Bay of Fundy, or the armpit of Canada :lol:
I actually have never seen you site. I took the sig file because I built a dozen Loricas and accoutrements for The Shakespeare Festivals production of Julius Caesar and got to play a bit role as well. It was a line from that play that really stuck. I will for sure be checking out your website shortly.
PS - When is Pennsic this year?

Thanks you all for your generosity with information... please keep it coming.

PS - This weekend Legio XXI are in build policy and will have teams working on ballista, shield press and Loricas. Any slackers will be crucified :twisted:

[Marcus Julius]

I'd have to agree with what has been already said about the scuta being good in melee, but poor in one on one. There are at least a couple of scuta-bearers (non-roman) here in Artemisia, but I have yet to see one brought into the tournaments.

However, I can say that I've seen curved oval shields, similar to this one:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=7207

In fact a recent King here, won crown with one.

[Magnus]

Hey Phillip, I have family in New Brunswick...I'll ask my dad what town. I am planning on heading your way next year or so.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Magnus/Matt,

I am in Saint John, NB... I'm sure we could manage to hook up if you have the time. I know visits can be pretty intensive to begin with :wink:
If it comes to fruition, let me know when and we'll work out the details.

Phillip

[Dominvs]

Magnus, I had a signature and avatar - not sure what happened, but it's since been corrected. Sorry.

Quintus, Pennsic war week is August 5-11 this year. Pennsic is the superbowl of medieval combat, nothing compares. As I said, you'd be welcome to field with us if you wish. We get in the paper almost every day, entire victories have been attributed to our actions. We can discuss it there, if you like. I can guarantee unparalleled glory and limelight. And most importantly, fun.

Back on topic - Romans understood the need to adapt organization, equipment and armaments to their military circumstances. I do not recommend convention scutum strapping for SCA melee combat.

Respectfully,

[Hibernicus]

If any of you were at Pennsic in '06 or saw pics the LAKEDAIMONES (Spartans) were my unit... the unit with the dished aspis style shields.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Dominvs,

Surfed your site last night. Very well done I must say!

Do you have any clear pictures of how your shields are typically strapped so I can avoid trying to trecreate the wheel?

Also, I noticed that on some of your events you were weilding sticks that were bigger than rattan, and the shields looked very thick, almost like martial arts kick shields?

Again, well done!

Phillip

[Dominvs]

Hey Phillip, thanks for the kind words.

The only downside of the SCA, at least on the east coast, is that the fighting is primarily tournament based. I'm not knocking the SCA, that's just their focus.

We do a lot of fighting in another international group called Dagorhir Battle Games. The weapons there are padded for safety's sake, and armor is less prevalent (or necessary). The combat's all melee. Hard hitting, fast paced! Don't misconstrue this as some LARPy boffer thing just 'cause the weapons are padded!

I did see the Spartans at Pennsic last year - they looked sharp, and acquitted themselves well.

Sean

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Dominvs,

You have peaked my interest with this Dagorhir Battle Games... I wonder if it exists in Canada??? East Coast Canada...
:?:

If I can swing Pennsic this year, I will definitely seek you out for playtime. New job does not have the flexibility I was previously used to though.

Regardless, If you can take a picture or two of how you strap your scutum, I would be greatly appreciative my friend!

Warmest regards,

Phillip

[Dominvs]

Phillip, Dagorhir does have a Canada Chapter. But alas, on the wrong (i.e., western) coast. I think your closest groups would be Buffalo, NY, or New England. It's a lot of fun, cheaper to get into, and (being melee-based) our proving grounds.

Our shield strapping is entirely medieval. 45 degrees from the center, with your fist/handle facing the / upper outside corner. Held properly (from a medieval reckoning), that point of your scutum should be right around the top of your head, when in a refused stance. I'l see about getting a pic.

Why don't we strap our shields with a traditional punch grip? Romans didn't have to face armies with down-swinging glaives and halberds. When we slam into the fray, the strapped shield will protect you.

Great chatting, brother. I sincerely hope you'll at least drop by at Pennsic to enjoy our hospitality.

[Chuck Russell]

Why don't we strap our shields with a traditional punch grip? Romans didn't have to face armies with down-swinging glaives and halberds. When we slam into the fray, the strapped shield will protect you.

ummm i think that they did. not halberds per say but they seriously had to worry about the over the head shots from enemies.

like the website. always liked dagorhir stuff maybe if i'm in the neighborhood i'll drop in.

[Felix Canus]

Our shield strapping is entirely medieval. 45 degrees from the center, with your fist/handle facing the / upper outside corner. Held properly (from a medieval reckoning), that point of your scutum should be right around the top of your head, when in a refused stance. I'l see about getting a pic.

Just to say it again (I'm feeling reduntant today), try out different strap and grip positions on a peg board. Personally, I find 30 degrees to be far more comfortable and responsive.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Ok, I will try the peg board and try the variance between 30 and 45 degrees before committing it to shield
One question comes to mind though... it has to do with the straight bones of your forearm against the inner curvature of a scutum... add collissional force against the outside of the shield, and wouldn't the medial bones of your radius/ulna bow to conform to the inner curvature of the shield as your contact points would be presumably at the wrist and the elbow... leaving the most break suceptable area of your forearm bones (middle area) without support. Should this concavity be filled in for support perhaps?

What do you think?

[Felix Canus]

It certainly couldn't hurt (no pun intended), though it's usually more important for a flat shield. But it shouldn't be really needed. If you mount the handle so that you have a comfortable relaxed grip that you can slip in and out of easily, there should be a small gap between the shield and your hand when you squeeze. For most handles, this may require you to put washers/spacers between the shield and the handle's mounts for the proper height.

Any contact with your wrist will be merely a side-note as you flex harder (just like the wrist bending while arm-wrestling). When hit, your arm will bend at the wrist like a shock absorber and letting the muscles in the upper and lower arm soak up the force. Given that, some light padding under the wrist may be a good idea.

Most of the impact will mainly transfer from the shield to the elbow, which will already be protected by the armor of the vambrace and elbow cop. Some padding might be nice to keep the shield from denting up the elbow cop, but you shouldn't feel a thing.

Now that I think about it, a large padded surface to fill in the middle gap might give you some added control as well.

OH! ohohoh! Don't forget to leave room for the cage/basket over your hand (if you're going to use one) or for a heavy gauntlet. Geez. I don't believe I forgot that until now.

[Mac]

I used to do Roman in the SCA down here in Fla. As a matter of fact we are reforming the unit again. With my experiances at the SCA wars, If you keep your shield light, and line it with a hose you won't tire out as easy. Keep your formation tight when you attack don't break up. Keep moving to attack different units. My last war we took on a group of 150( I have a video of this) We charged them head on busted through their shield wall(never use your group as a moving shield wall) and busted out the back of the unit. We then charged them again. We came 10 shy of wiping out the whole unit. The SCAers are affraid of a well organized uniformed unit. You will get hit in the head I have a nice dent in my helm. Use your group as shock troops in a battle. NO single combat. Roman formations are great for busting up other groups. Have allies on your flanks, and rear let them do the killing. I can post some pictures of us at Sea Raids a few years back. I think it was in Savannah