Villa Borghese soldier statue

[Arahne]

I disagree with two posts above. There is money around us but there is not good will to spend it for the right causes. People are used to artifacts old few thousand years in Europe and do not think that they are of great importance. Me and my colleagues are responsible for that.

[Goffredo]

Hi
I am sure my memory is not failing me this morning. There is a plaster mold of the same soldier with squamata in the back courtyard of a restaurant at the Portico di Ottavia in the jewish quarter in Rome. I saw it a few years ago and asked about it because it is a really nice plaster replica and indeed the soldier looks great!
Cheers

[satsobek]

thats no excuse.

M.VIB.M.

I never said it was an excuse, I was more trying to explain the reasoning behind why things are the way they are with stuff in Italy. Is it good? No. Shoud every artifact recieve the funding and attention it deserves? for sure. It's sad, but I can see why things are the way they are, that's all.

I am very sure the Italian authorities could do many things better to improve their antiquities department, and I am sure many people are far more knowledgable on that subject than me, but on the other hand, I can imagine how very frustrating it must get after awhile that every single time one goes to build something in Rome, they must contend not only with the delays of an archaeological excavation, but also find something to do with everything uncovered. There are only a few places in the world where the challenges of balancing modern life and progress with archaeology are so great (Rome, Athens, etc), and in such an extreme situation, I have a hard time being a very harsh critic, because I seriously doubt I could handle it better.

[Robert Vermaat]

As a citizen of the European Union, I think it's high time the EU got their act together and started thinking differently about cultural heritage.

Instead of thinking like "well, the Greeks and Italians are literally tripping over statues, tough for them to pay for their preservation", we should thinking more like "hey, let's find enough money to pay for the recovery and preservation of all our European heritage", regardless of where it's in the ground". So more money goes to Italy then to The Netherlands or to Denmark? Tough - better then to loose precious material because we think like scrooges, entrenched behind our silly borders.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Okay, not wanting to put oil on a lit fire, i must say that during the time of Mussolini, Italians were forced to act properly about their and our european heritage.

Okay he was a criminal... sure....he forced thousands of people out of their homes to excavate ancient Rome...

but he made excavations and investigating the Roman past a holy queeste... unfortunately the Nazis came in and destroyed a lot of the work he made possible, also the beautiful Imperial ship which was blown up by the German SS.

I do not say Mussolini was okay!!!!!, far from it!!! but at least he partly understood the meaning of preserving Rome's past...

even though he used and abused it for his own sick goals.....

(The Romans would probably have murdered him if he would ever have been in power back then...)

its for a substantial part thanx to him that in Rome we can see so much of what would otherwise have been lost forever.

I would love to see more European money going into Italy to preserve our heritage.... but that would have to be under strict control!! since a lot of the money otherwise would end up elsewhere.......

a good site on the criminal way Mussolini went about archaeology can be found here:

https://webspace.utexas.edu/atr253/www/ ... scfrm.html

it shows very clearly how the Fascists used archaology for their own sick plans... the only benefit being that we now can enjoy so much of ancient Rome..........

M.VIB.M.

[Robert Vermaat]

Something like that - Wilhelm II of Germany. Thanks to him tearing down parts of a church and some houses, we can now enjoy the true Roman walls of Trier's Porta Nigra and the Basilica...

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Yup!!!

exactly......!

however Roman re-enactors and classic history buffs are not in power these days..

so we can forget more of the same will ever happen......

i had a laugh when the riot between Greece and Italy started on the Bronze statues stolen by Nero which were found in a shipwreck...

On the Elgin Marbles i must say i also believe they should be on the Parthenon, but only when pollution has been minimized by about 100 %

Also funny the Greek government got angry about the Macedonian flag, they said it was Greek...... HAHAHAHAHA it was Macedonian and if you would have told Alexander the great he was Greek he would have killed you on the spot.......

so a lot is still to be desired in the present day world.........

progress versus archaeology, you could write a thesis on it..

M.VIB.M.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Not at all! Alexander wanted to be greek, and was just a bit vexed that the Greeks looked down on him as a barbarian! :lol:

But at least Sweden has returned some artifacts to Greece! And I don't think the marbles would be replaced on to the Parthenon, as a new museum has been built to house them, and also they were butchered when removed from the site.

But this is the wrong place to get into a heated discussion! :wink:

Regards

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

hahaha I know............. :wink:

however even though he might want to have wanted to be Greek, he never applied for citizenship in Athens... hahahaha

M.VIB.M.

[Dan Diffendale]

Something like that - Wilhelm II of Germany. Thanks to him tearing down parts of a church and some houses, we can now enjoy the true Roman walls of Trier's Porta Nigra and the Basilica...

And on Medieval Army Talk, you will find people complaining about the loss of information from the church and houses. It's a problem when archaeologists of any stripe rush through "nondesirable" more modern layers. It's what Schliemann did at Troy, convinced he was rushing through to "Priam's Troy" when in fact he devastated that layer (and all the more modern layers) to reach an earlier period.

Working on information for Corinth as part of my job, I'm frustrated by how frequently anything post-Classical was simply dismantled to get it out of the way, and the information survives (maybe!) in a sentence or two, or a rough sketch -- no proper excavation record.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

also true........... well....... as soon as the asteroid hits we wont need to worry about these things anymore....


BTW vesuvius will erupt again... they expect a force about that of mount St Helens........


OOPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


M.VIB.M.

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

After so much squawking, better coming back to the statue...: it's beautifully and for good, exposed and preserved at the Musei Capitolini in Roma...



No breast: it's definitively a male, roman cavalry officer, with squamatae shoulder-plates on the long squamata.

Thanks to my italian comes Tigranes for showing to me that.

Valete,

[aitor iriarte]

Beautiful! Good, laus for you, Daniele!
Could we have some detail pics from the shoulder plates and belt? 8)

Aitor

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

Sure! )



Vale,

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

Hey! Just now I realize it's from the Tlclark's site hock:

Valete,