Ferrata - Ironclad. Conjecture alert!!!

[M. Demetrius]

But Fretensis still describes a location or place, a setting, not their physical appearance.

Hold on there, they might all have been skinny, you know?

[Tarbicus]

I'd go with that Dem. if there were Legios Turpa, Nitida, or Breva.

(I think they're right :? )

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Jim,

here’s a text from

http://imperiumromanum.com/militaer/hee ... n06_01.htm

Roughly translated:

'The name ‘ferrata’ mean ‘of iron’. It is correlated either to the stableness of the legion or the introduction of new armour. Since 49 BC also the epihtet 'Hispaniensis' (the Spanish) appeared. During services in the first century AD the legion earned the name of honor 'fidelis constans' (loyal & constant/consistent). Emblem: capitolian wolf with Romulus and Remus)'

Interesting that 'fidelis constans' later came up, expressing one of our two supposed naming reasons so to speak expressis verbis in that very special legion (reminding me somewhat to the USMC...)

[Tarbicus]

Thanks Heiko. The Fidelis Constans still doesn't get around the definite meaning of 'ferrata' to be 'cuirassier' in so many cases - "clad in iron". Does the author of the webpage explain why he would say

It is correlated either to the stableness of the legion or the introduction of new armour.

by any chance? Someone else who can see the possibility :wink:

[Praefectusclassis]

the definite meaning of 'ferrata' to be 'cuirassier' in so many cases - "clad in iron"

Well, that's precisely the problem isn't it? It wouldn't be the first time that a translator has to make up his mind and chooses an English meaning that makes sense to him. Moreover, they copy eachother, looking for parallels.
What you'd need to do is find as many literary passages with ferrata in them as possible and make sense thereof.

[Tarbicus]

Okay, and sorry for yappin' on about tangible meanings.

[Praefectusclassis]

But it has made me curious now. Maybe I'll do a search in the latin literary db tomorrow and post the results here. I can only access it at university.
Also, it looks like we haven't got the Ritterling translation for this legion on RA.com yet. Any volunteers?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Jim,

unfortunately the author gives no further information. Seems this two versions are the 'classic' ones to explain the origin of the name.

So anything is possible.

The legion could have been very steadfast, earning the ferrata as 'like iron' or 'iron brigade' and later that was confirmed with a further name indicating similar attributes by calling them 'fidelis constans'.

Or they were equipped with new cuirasses or something else, featuring a more 'iron' look overall, so that ferrata really indicated their gear. Also thinkable, that it was their (new) armour then which gave them more self-confidence or stableness which enabled their later success and made them earn the 'fidelis constans'... Means they first were called 'armoured' and later 'armoured, loyal & constant'.

Continue digging for the truth :wink:

[Tarbicus]

Cheers Heiko!

Anyone know if this is relevant to the meaning thing?
[url:2q2g3i4a]http://www.uan.it/alim/letteratura.nsf/(testiID)/077DC7366F0A5CAFC1256D4D002F80C9!opendocument[/url]

It has much usage of "ferrata" in what seems to be a military context and Alexander, but my latin's rubbish and the text is medieval latin.

[Marcus Cassius LegioXIV]

Just to throw in my two denerii, during the American Civil war a New york unit did have the nickname ironsides or ironclad, course iron vests were fairly rare and only used early in that war.

[Tarbicus]

Thanks Sean, interesting to see a much later use.

According to William Whittaker's latin dictionary the meaning is very narrow:

ferratus, ferrata, ferratum ADJ [XXXEC] uncommon
furnished or covered with iron; [w/servi => in irons];

Not Loeb's, but does say it's an uncommon adjective.

[Tarbicus]

Tacitus, Annals Book 3, 46:

paulum morae attulere ferrati, restantibus lamminis adversum pila et gladios; set miles correptis securibus et dolabris, ut si murum perrumperet, caedere tegmina et corpora;

Any expert latin linguists out there who can make a direct connection between ferrati and plate (lamminis) in that passage, or any other? In fact, I think that's one of the most interesting passages I've ever come across in a primary source to do with armour. The gladii and pila couldn't penetrate the plate, so they had to resort to axes. This ties in so much with so much.

(I'm really gonna regret ever starting this thread, and could make an even wilder suggestion about the use of the word ferrata in relation to body armour....)

[rusty myers]

The Sixth survived something 6 major battles going from a strength of 1000 to 900, culminating in the Unit's finest Hour at the Battle of Zela, where these 900 held the line and turned the tide of the battle. Sounds like a plausible reason to be called IRONSIDED. Just a suggestion. I have found no one who establishes when Fidelas Constans appearred, probably after the Pax Romana. Of course any input is appreciated if you have a source for it!


Later seeing action at Pharsalus in 48 BC, Julius Caesar took the 6th to Alexandria to settle the dispute in Egypt with Cleopatra. Alexandria was laid to siege and the 6th was almost wiped out losing almost two thirds of its entire manpower. Caesar eventually triumphed when reinforcements arrived. (The Alexandrian War, attributed to Caesar)

Caesar took his "Veteran Sixth Legion" with him to Syria and Pontus. (The Alexandrian War, attributed to Caesar, 33).

"When Caesar reached Pontus he gathered all his forces together in one spot. They were modest in number and experience of war, with the exception of the veteran Sixth Legion, which he had brought with him from Alexandria; but this had gone through such toil and danger and been so reduced in size, in part by the difficulties of the marches and voyages, and in part by the frequency of campaigning, that it contained less than a thousand men..." (The Alexandrian War, attributed to Caesar, 76)

The Legion then served in Pontus under Caesar in 48 and 47 BC. This culminated in the battle of Zela (a town in Pontus) where victory was won by Legio VI.

“The origin of our victory lay in the bitter and intense hand-to-hand battle joined on the right wing, where the veteran Sixth Legion was stationedâ€

[D B Campbell]

Sometimes it's useful to look at the equivalent Greek terminology, as a much richer, more expressive language.

In Greek, the legion is named sidêra (e.g. ILS 9108), not sidêrophoros; in other words, it is "made of iron" in the abstract, rather than specifically "wearing iron".

(Of course, you could still argue that "made of iron" alludes to their armour in some way. )

[Tarbicus]

Thanks Rusty and Duncan for the additional info.

I'm obviously giving the impression that my mind's set on this (which it probably is) but so far any interpretation seems equally conjectural.

The more I look up ferratus et al the more it seems to mean (particularly soldiers) clad in iron. By medieval times it just seems to be a given for that. As an adjective it also seems to mean clad in iron for everything from gateposts to towers, as far back as in Vergil.

It's something to do I suppose.