Question for Graham...Deurne shoe

[Martin Moser]

Hi Franklin,

If there were a soled version of of these shoes, do you think it would just be the slipper with a sole nailed on after the fact, or do you think it would be a lasted shoe with a separate upper and sole?

I can only speculate, but generally speaking making shoes like caligae or Deurne type shoes is an easier task (once you have the cutting pattern worked out, of course :-) ) ) and requires less different work steps than a lasted shoe does.
Maybe the sheer fact that lasted shoes made the way the Romans did them (made with a technique rather similar to modern handmade shoes) seem to disappear at some point and are reinvented some time in the 15th century (I think it was) is an indicator for this.
So I think they would probably be made in caligae style. There might be slight variations on where the lower, horizontal seams are, I can imagine, however. With the finds we have, they are not in the place where it would be easiest to sew them closed, i.e. along the line of the sole outline. But that would mean that they would have more or less direct contact with the ground, and this could easily lead to damaging the thread and the shoe coming apart.
This quite cetainly was the reason that the lower horizontal seams were brought a bit upwards so that there would be no ground contact of the seam area when walking. You can easily see this on the pics of the Deurne shoes.
One last word on the sole, if you do attach one, use a single layer sole. While calcei on some statues shoe what looks like double- or triple-layered soles and finds of soleae (toe-string open sandals) are multi-layered, caligae and closed shoe finds all have single layered soles as far as I'm aware.

Btw, you can see Aitor's reconstruction here and links to more pics further down there.

[Robert Vermaat]

Thanks to both of you for comments, I'm having my Deurne replicas soled within the next months, so I guess I need the information from this thread badly! Pictures will follow.

Yes, what is the reason for Aitor's self-imposed exile? I've been wondering.

Private reasons and work-load.

Btw, you can see Aitor's reconstruction here and links to more pics further down there.

That's indeed one of the Deurne shoes, but not the ones we were talking about here?

[Franklin]

Understandable.

Many thanks to Graham, Robert, and Martin for all the assistance (and Carol indirectly!).

And Robert, you're still not off the hook! I expect pictures at some point. Elsewise I'll finish my pair and shame you by posting mine first.

[Robert Vermaat]

And Robert, you're still not off the hook! I expect pictures at some point. Elsewise I'll finish my pair and shame you by posting mine first.

Thy wish is my command. :wink: The light was failing, if they are not good enough I´ll make new ones later.

[Franklin]

Excellent! Many thanks!

Sarah did a brilliant job, they're gorgeous shoes. This also answers a problem I've had. I guess there's simply no way to avoid the bunching at the toes.

Laudes!

[Publius Aelius Lucius]

Thy wish is my command. The light was failing, if they are not good enough I´ll make new ones later.

really great shoes Robert hock: hock: hock:

[Crispvs]

I also made a replica pair of Deurne shoes about five years ago. I guessed that the originals had been turned but assumed (incorrectly as it turned out) that there must also originally have been a nailed sole. I cut out the shape of the shoe but simplified it by omitting the cut-out decoration and then sewed it up. I couldn't work out how I would turn the shoe with a nailed sole already attached (having made turned shoes before ), so I decided to sew the sole on later. Turning such a simple shoe was childsplay and of course the stitching is all on the inside, avoiding the problem of the stitching being worn away by rough ground. I sewed the sole on with a tunnel stitch and then hammered in the hobnails (I had been going to nail the sole first but the decided that that they would hold better if they were hammered through a double layer of leather). I took the nails out again after meeting with Carol and discussing the shoes with her but I have yet to remove the sole and I think it would be a better idea to make a whole new pair. One thing I should say is that there was no significant bunching around the toes when I first turned the shoes but after I added the sole the effect was increased slightly. I agree, having walked in then a bit, that this sort of shoe is unsuited to infantry use and in fact Carol said that it was a cavalry shoe. Even here though I am slghtly dubious, as I am sure cavalrymen would have spent a good deal of time walking as well, either around the fort or next to their horses while resting them (which would probably be about half the length of time a long journey lasted, judging by what we know of cavalry in other periods).

I will take a picture of my shoes over the weekend and will post it up on Monday.


Crispvs

[Franklin]

I will take a picture of my shoes over the weekend and will post it up on Monday.


Crispvs

Please do!

[Crispvs]

Here we are:

Left shoe


Right shoe


Both shoes


Crispvs

[Virilis]

Nice !

[Crispvs]

Sorry, I meant to post a picture of the shoes when not being worn as well. In this photo I have taken the lace out of one shoe to allow the shoe itself to be seen more easily. If you look very carefully you might even be able to see the holes where I took the hobnails out :roll: .



Crispvs

[Franklin]

Thanks!

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Hello Robert.

Nice shoes! But i have a question: the "scalloped" border looking like a saw blade it's a decorative implement as Sarah have reconstructed, or is caused by the degradation of a sewing?

If you look the first picture of the post, seems as the upper border were two layers of leather, or the leather turns back itself, probably to make it stronger. And in the point sewing, you can see a very similar "saw blade" efect.

What do you think?

I like too the Crispus ones, probably better for a strong late roman soldier as him. :wink:

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

And if anybody have the Carol article, i'm interested, too. I have to make a late roman impression or my comrades of group will drop me out of the legio... :lol: :lol: :wink:

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

I mean something like that: