RomanArmyTalk

I started to PM Graham privately but thought others on RAT might benefit from the answer as well.

My question regards figure 3, plate H from RMC(2), labeled "Cavalryman, Equites Catafractarii, mid-4th century AD". The gent appears to be wearing shoes based on the finds from Deurne. You depict them as having a separate sole (presumably with hobnails?). From what I can tell, though, the original was more of a one-piece slipper style shoe. Just wondered what your thought process was when rendering this fellow's boots! I'm working on a pair myself right now and am curious about all theories.

This question is directed at Graham, but others are welcome to weigh in of course.

Hello Franklin

Quote:My question regards figure 3, plate H from RMC(2), labeled "Cavalryman, Equites Catafractarii, mid-4th century AD". The gent appears to be wearing shoes based on the finds from Deurne. You depict them as having a separate sole (presumably with hobnails?). From what I can tell, though, the original was more of a one-piece slipper style shoe. Just wondered what your thought process was when rendering this fellow's boots! I'm working on a pair myself right now and am curious about all theories.

Well spotted and correct on both points. Thought process...probably well this is not a reconstruction of the Deurne cavalryman so what the hell do I put on his feet? Yes the shoes are based on one of the Deurne types but as Carol van Driel-Murray suggested in her article 'Footwear in the North-Western Provinces of the Roman Empire', shoes of a similar appearance "also occur with nailed soles, for example, Vindolanda, York and on the statues of the Tetrarchs in Venice.

I think Aitor is also working on a pair of Deurne shoes so perhaps he is best qualified to help, Robert (Vermaat) too will undoubtedly have more information to help with your reconstruction.
Best of luck.
Graham.

Ha! This is more or less the answer I was looking for. I've been trying to justify adding hobnails/sole to my reconstruction, now I reckon I can do so guilt free.

I wonder, would it just have been the same one-piece slipper with a sole simply tacked on as an afterthought, or would it be a genuine lasted shoe with standard construction.

So where could a fellow put his hands on Carol's article? Also, I'd love to get my hands on a full report of the Deurne finds. Where do I get access to these? (and are they available in English!)

Many thanks Graham!

Hi Franklin,

Quote:So where could a fellow put his hands on Carol's article? Also, I'd love to get my hands on a full report of the Deurne finds. Where do I get access to these? (and are they available in English!)

if you PM me your emailaddress I think I can help you out :-) )

Don't have the time at the moment to elaborate in more detail, but generally there is not very much known about 4/5th century shoes compared to the centuries before.

Quote:...generally there is not very much known about 4/5th century shoes compared to the centuries before.

Yeah, this is the wall I find myself coming up against again and again. But just like the Deurne pics I posted above, there are some solid scraps of info here and there.

PM sent. A pity Carol isn't a forum member herself, as much as her works get referenced here.

Many thanks!

I wear replicas of them made by Sarah Juniper. Maybe I can be of some help?

I actually considered tapping Sarah for this project but her website says she doesn't do turn shoes which, strictly speaking, is what these slippers are I think.

Are yours soled or non-soled?

If you'd like to help, post pics! As many as you've got!

These are non-soled, like the original Deurne shoes. I don't recommend that though.

I've promise before that I would post pictures.. mea culpa. :?

Quote:These are non-soled, like the original Deurne shoes. I don't recommend that though.

A little rough on the old feet? I was afraid of that.

So Sarah was open to recreating the Deurne slippers? Very cool.

Sarah made my caligae, and her work is pretty neat! Slight fit problem, but I never took her up on her return to modify offer, so my own fault..
I think she gives you a month to return for modification free of cost, then she charges.......nice work tho...

Quote:

Vortigern Studies:2rewc2ti Wrote:These are non-soled, like the original Deurne shoes. I don't recommend that though.

A little rough on the old feet? I was afraid of that.

No, that's not the problem, although I would not recommend wearing them on rough surfaces or on long marches. They're cavarly shoes, that's for sure!
No, the soles show wear and tear very quickly, without a sole...

Quote:So Sarah was open to recreating the Deurne slippers? Very cool.

Yes she was very enthusiastic about it too, and did not ask me more than for her normal range of shoes.

Excellent. Well, I'll ask you the same question I asked Graham above. If there were a soled version of of these shoes, do you think it would just be the slipper with a sole nailed on after the fact, or do you think it would be a lasted shoe with a separate upper and sole? (I hope that question made sense.)

Quote: If there were a soled version of of these shoes, do you think it would just be the slipper with a sole nailed on after the fact, or do you think it would be a lasted shoe with a separate upper and sole? (I hope that question made sense.)

Not much, but then I'm a doofus with shoes. I can only ask you how a sole is added to a caliga-type shoe. I expect that it would be the same with a Deurne type shoe.

Aitor is definately the man to ask though, but I'm afraid he's incommunicado for a while.

Quote:Aitor is definately the man to ask though, but I'm afraid he's incommunicado for a while.

Yes, what is the reason for Aitor's self-imposed exile? I've been wondering.

I guess I'm thinking about the difference between caligae and calcei. With caligae you have a one-piece shoe, then you sandwich that between two additional pieces of leather and nail the whole thing shut. With calcei you have an upper that is stretched over a wooden last and then the sole is stitched on separately.

I'm trying to envision a soled version of the Deurne slipper and decide which of those two construction methods would have been more likely. Martin may be able to shed a little more light when he has some time to reply.