07-20-2012, 07:29 AM
Hello Paul
This is dangerously becoming off topic. Perhaps a moderator might like to start a new thread on naval uniforms!
I think Vegetius (translation Milner) say's that the Britons refer to the small scouting skiffs attached to large warships as picati. Taken to mean painted blue.
Vegetius then later mentions patrol vessels with sails and rigging dyed venetian blue. later on he say's the sailors and marines put on venetian blue clothing. Somehow this gets interpreted as meaning only sailors of the British fleet do this. There is in fact no mention of a British fleet at all! ( a slip I have made in the past too! :oops: )
There should also be no doubt as the colour either, Venetian blue sacred to Neptune is also the same colour as that used by the blue circus fashion. So look at the mosaics which show the charioteers in their blue tunics. It is not a dark royal blue but a slightly faded denim blue.
Other references to naval clothing colour:
Plautus Mil. Glor.,IV,4,43, ferrigineum iron grey? The faded denim look?
Cassius Dio. XLVIII,48 stole kuanosis cerulean blue, which again one could say is a faded denim blue or sky blue.
Appian Hist., V, 100. venutus see above.
I agree it would be very difficult to get uniform colours or shades and even if you go with the un-dyed wool clothing look that would not all be the same shade either.
You are quite right to mention that Caesar himself does not say what colour his cloak was. It would be fascinating to know what he thought was distinctive as it would appear most officers cloaks were either red or purple, although there are also mentions of white ones too which I take to mean bleached. For some reason Crassus is supposed to have worn a black cloak on the eve of Carrhae but I guess that was written after the event with a huge dollop of hindsight! I also guess that the translator of Caesar got the red cloak from Pliny who mentions the officers cloaks dyed red. I think Appian later mentions Caesars cloak being taken as a prize in Alexandria and there it is purple but don't quote me on that at this time of night!
Graham.
This is dangerously becoming off topic. Perhaps a moderator might like to start a new thread on naval uniforms!
I think Vegetius (translation Milner) say's that the Britons refer to the small scouting skiffs attached to large warships as picati. Taken to mean painted blue.
Vegetius then later mentions patrol vessels with sails and rigging dyed venetian blue. later on he say's the sailors and marines put on venetian blue clothing. Somehow this gets interpreted as meaning only sailors of the British fleet do this. There is in fact no mention of a British fleet at all! ( a slip I have made in the past too! :oops: )
There should also be no doubt as the colour either, Venetian blue sacred to Neptune is also the same colour as that used by the blue circus fashion. So look at the mosaics which show the charioteers in their blue tunics. It is not a dark royal blue but a slightly faded denim blue.
Other references to naval clothing colour:
Plautus Mil. Glor.,IV,4,43, ferrigineum iron grey? The faded denim look?
Cassius Dio. XLVIII,48 stole kuanosis cerulean blue, which again one could say is a faded denim blue or sky blue.
Appian Hist., V, 100. venutus see above.
I agree it would be very difficult to get uniform colours or shades and even if you go with the un-dyed wool clothing look that would not all be the same shade either.
You are quite right to mention that Caesar himself does not say what colour his cloak was. It would be fascinating to know what he thought was distinctive as it would appear most officers cloaks were either red or purple, although there are also mentions of white ones too which I take to mean bleached. For some reason Crassus is supposed to have worn a black cloak on the eve of Carrhae but I guess that was written after the event with a huge dollop of hindsight! I also guess that the translator of Caesar got the red cloak from Pliny who mentions the officers cloaks dyed red. I think Appian later mentions Caesars cloak being taken as a prize in Alexandria and there it is purple but don't quote me on that at this time of night!
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
