02-03-2012, 06:53 AM
I notice that people pull up all kinds of singular non representative examples to use in their arguments here. Show me one pottery, art or statuary depicting these crest types.
Of all the hundreds of years of the Corinthian helmets use....only 550 exist intact. No crests. What you are holding up as an example is either trophia, votive or was so unusual it was worth dedicating to a temple and thus it survived. Of the normal common crests depicted.....organic materials like wood and horsehair. Easy to obtain or replace when damaged and relatively cheap. The crests served perhaps many functions. Identification, intimidation, uniformity, organizational and most reasons people do silly things.....it was an aesthetically pleasing cultural thing. They just liked the look!
As to recovering of armor or other organic items....in no city state has such items been found. They just don't survive. I wouldn't say Sparta was the most bronzed up... In fact given their economic model and adherence to a self-reliance I would doubt they had as much bronze as most other states. The fact that no armor or bronze is found there is more likely due to reuse than non existence. Helmets etc have never been found there let alone armor or weapons. The few examples we have are dedicated pieces with an inscription saying it was taken from the Spartans. So yes we could conclude the Spartans used organic armor and other things. The bronze parts being reused into other things. Whereas in wealthy Athens such items could be dedicated or made for dedication without great financial hardship.
The earlier question about evidence of crest colors being used for special groups, yes. We know a commando group from Athens had white crests specifically. The Spartans red more or less uniformly. However there is also mention of disastrous battles due to friendly fire or ambush due to not recognizing the enemy. So.....50-50. I'd imagine the use of shield emblems would be more common for states/tribes. I happen to theorize that Agogic house likely had colors/emblems in Sparta before the Lambda. Thus a commander could see which unit or 'regiment' was where in his line.
Of all the hundreds of years of the Corinthian helmets use....only 550 exist intact. No crests. What you are holding up as an example is either trophia, votive or was so unusual it was worth dedicating to a temple and thus it survived. Of the normal common crests depicted.....organic materials like wood and horsehair. Easy to obtain or replace when damaged and relatively cheap. The crests served perhaps many functions. Identification, intimidation, uniformity, organizational and most reasons people do silly things.....it was an aesthetically pleasing cultural thing. They just liked the look!
As to recovering of armor or other organic items....in no city state has such items been found. They just don't survive. I wouldn't say Sparta was the most bronzed up... In fact given their economic model and adherence to a self-reliance I would doubt they had as much bronze as most other states. The fact that no armor or bronze is found there is more likely due to reuse than non existence. Helmets etc have never been found there let alone armor or weapons. The few examples we have are dedicated pieces with an inscription saying it was taken from the Spartans. So yes we could conclude the Spartans used organic armor and other things. The bronze parts being reused into other things. Whereas in wealthy Athens such items could be dedicated or made for dedication without great financial hardship.
The earlier question about evidence of crest colors being used for special groups, yes. We know a commando group from Athens had white crests specifically. The Spartans red more or less uniformly. However there is also mention of disastrous battles due to friendly fire or ambush due to not recognizing the enemy. So.....50-50. I'd imagine the use of shield emblems would be more common for states/tribes. I happen to theorize that Agogic house likely had colors/emblems in Sparta before the Lambda. Thus a commander could see which unit or 'regiment' was where in his line.
