Star-signs!

[tlclark]

Wow!

Just discovered this thread.

After reading four pages I still can't believe no one came up with the best quote on this..

"The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but with ourselves"

From JULIUS CAESAR no less!

At any rate...my dish.

First off, I'm an Ares and I like pina coladas and walking in the rain.

Second, I once saw an astrological chart prepared for some Duke in the 17th C., what shocked me was the person who prepared it, Johannes Kepler! I later found out that Galileo did the same for Cosimo d'Medici, and Copernicus did likewise. How cool is that!

Third. I am of the opinion that modern horoscopes are junk. Many are scientifically inaccurate. Depending on your latitude, especially if you are born near a cut-off, you may not be the sign you think you are. Most astrological charts are junk. Since astology is not arbitrary, but based on real astronomical positions, which are fixed and real, the sloppiness of modern astrology is the best evidence that it is bunk, but that's my opinion.

On the larger debate I would describe myself as a person who is as close to an atheist as you can get, and miss.

I was a born skeptic, in fact, I would have been far happier I think remaining an atheist. God had other plans.

Not to get too personal, but I have as certain a knowledge about God as I do about the existence of my right hand. Saying there is no God, would be like looking at my hand and calling it a kumquat!

Now. Ask me how I know that?

Hmmm. Give me a lifetime and I might be able to explain it to you.

God's sense of humor is very well established. He made me a skeptic and then gave me evidence I can't rationally justify.

I love Goffredo's allegories as well and really can't argue against them, but at some point, there is no rational evidence for the most important things in life.

I will always remember what a monk on Mt. Athos told me the last time I was there. He said that the most important things in life are the ones we feel and not think out, family, friends, love. All the things for which we can't give rational justifications. Carl Sagan, noted astronomer and athiest had the tables turned on him when one of his christian friends asked him to prove he loved his wife.

That being said, as a person who believes in a Creator, we obviously have a rational capacity (necessary for free will but that's another discussion) that implies that God has expectations of our reason. It would be absolutely illogical to say that God gives us rational capabilities and then expects to not ask certain questions.

Neither can I believe that God would be upset at us for using those rational faculties to obvious conclusions.

That means that as creations with free will and reason, God would be upset if we didn't pursue those mythical purple rhinos, or lucky gambler to the nth degree, as Goffredo suggests. This isn't just important for our mental and technological progression, but for our spiritual welfare as well. Without pursuing reason and giving it due diligence, faith becomes superstition.

BUT, and it's a big but, at some point, in some things we have to accept evidence beyond reason.... and then we are back to my right hand being a kumquat again. At that point I can no longer tell you, all I can do is show you the path and the rest is up to you.

Thanks for a great conversation!!