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parma
#95
Christian, I do not disagree with any of the points you make. But I fail to see how you can use them to advocate a dished or curved Parma in the 1st century AD.

Of course the umbones found in the Illerup Bog aren't flat. They were meant to be fitted on dished shields. This kind of shield was the norm IMO, starting from the 3rd century AD. You say umbones with a flat flange are rare among these finds. If a parma was flat in the 3rd century AD, what do you think the ratio between the number of parmae and regular scuta would have been? There were an awful lot more legionarries around than signiferi or cornicines.

I think we have no evidence for the shape of the parma worn by the signifer and cornicen in the 1st century AD, apart from the (often very flawed) sculptural evidence. Like you say umbones are often badly restaured or not well published so we often can use those as evidence. But this works in both ways. Not as evidence for flat shields, and not as evidence for dished shields.

I also think a flat parma is easier to tug under your arm or wear on your back. It's not like the signifer or cornicen had a close combat fighting role...

Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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Messages In This Thread
parma - by Chuck Russell - 04-02-2006, 05:46 PM
Parma - by Peroni - 04-03-2006, 11:58 AM
Re: parma - by Chuck Russell - 04-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Re: parma - by FAVENTIANVS - 04-04-2006, 12:27 AM
Re: parma - by Chuck Russell - 04-04-2006, 01:38 AM
Re: parma - by Crispvs - 04-04-2006, 01:45 AM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 04-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Re: parma - by TIBISIVS - 04-04-2006, 03:02 PM
Legionary Parma - by Peroni - 04-05-2006, 08:29 AM
Re: parma - by Jasper Oorthuys - 04-05-2006, 08:41 AM
Re: parma - by Crispvs - 04-05-2006, 11:28 AM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 04-05-2006, 03:42 PM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 04-05-2006, 06:44 PM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 04-06-2006, 11:57 AM
Re: parma - by Jeroen Pelgrom - 04-07-2006, 08:23 AM
Re: parma - by Chuck Russell - 04-12-2006, 02:44 AM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 04-12-2006, 08:18 AM
Re: parma - by Chuck Russell - 04-13-2006, 01:50 AM
Re: parma - by Primvs Pavlvs - 04-13-2006, 12:09 PM
Re: parma - by Opifex - 06-07-2006, 01:56 PM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 06-07-2006, 02:58 PM
Parma - by TIB. CLAVDIVS ZENO - 09-05-2006, 03:38 PM
Re: parma - by Matthew Amt - 09-05-2006, 04:19 PM
Parma - by TIB. CLAVDIVS ZENO - 09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 09-06-2006, 06:02 PM
Re: parma - by Martin - 05-09-2007, 06:52 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 05-09-2007, 07:11 PM
Re: parma - by Ironhand - 05-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Re: parma - by rusty myers - 05-09-2007, 09:09 PM
Re: parma - by Martin - 05-11-2007, 06:12 AM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 05-11-2007, 09:22 AM
Re: parma - by Martin - 08-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 08-08-2007, 03:42 PM
Re: parma - by AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs - 08-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 08-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 08-08-2007, 08:04 PM
Re: parma - by FAVENTIANVS - 08-08-2007, 11:23 PM
Parma - by Paullus Scipio - 08-09-2007, 01:30 AM
Re: parma - by Magnus - 08-09-2007, 02:55 AM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 08-09-2007, 03:49 AM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 08-09-2007, 08:36 AM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 08-09-2007, 08:37 AM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 08-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 08-09-2007, 12:13 PM
Re: parma - by Crispvs - 08-09-2007, 04:51 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 08-09-2007, 08:16 PM
Re: parma - by FAVENTIANVS - 08-09-2007, 11:03 PM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 08-09-2007, 11:08 PM
Re: parma - by FAVENTIANVS - 08-09-2007, 11:14 PM
Re: parma - by Robert Vermaat - 08-09-2007, 11:22 PM
Re: parma - by Martin - 08-13-2007, 08:41 AM
Re: parma - by Jvrjenivs - 08-13-2007, 08:48 AM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 08-13-2007, 12:59 PM
Re: parma - by Aetius Helvius Merula - 08-14-2007, 03:42 AM
Re: parma - by Poftim - 08-14-2007, 10:44 PM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 08-15-2007, 12:51 AM
Parma - by Paullus Scipio - 08-15-2007, 02:45 AM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 08-15-2007, 01:26 PM
Re: parma - by Chris B - 10-15-2007, 04:15 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 10-15-2007, 05:05 PM
Re: parma - by jbd_29349 - 10-15-2007, 05:07 PM
Re: parma - by Chris B - 10-15-2007, 05:30 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 10-29-2007, 07:43 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 10-29-2007, 08:25 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 10-29-2007, 08:48 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 10-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 10-29-2007, 08:59 PM
Re: parma - by Robert - 10-29-2007, 09:04 PM
Re: parma - by Paullus Scipio - 10-29-2007, 09:29 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 10-30-2007, 02:12 AM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 10-30-2007, 11:36 AM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 10-30-2007, 12:16 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 10-30-2007, 12:22 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 10-30-2007, 03:22 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 12:17 AM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-03-2008, 09:25 AM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-03-2008, 11:45 AM
Re: parma - by P. Clodius Secundus - 01-03-2008, 12:17 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 12:36 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-03-2008, 12:47 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-03-2008, 01:42 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Re: Parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 03:08 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 07:25 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-03-2008, 07:28 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-03-2008, 07:36 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-03-2008, 07:48 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-05-2008, 10:31 AM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-05-2008, 10:34 AM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-05-2008, 10:37 AM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-05-2008, 10:42 AM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-05-2008, 01:00 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-05-2008, 01:08 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-05-2008, 01:15 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-05-2008, 01:20 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-05-2008, 01:23 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-05-2008, 01:26 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-05-2008, 01:36 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-05-2008, 06:40 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-05-2008, 10:28 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-05-2008, 10:47 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-06-2008, 12:19 AM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-06-2008, 12:28 AM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-06-2008, 08:36 AM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-06-2008, 12:47 PM
Re: parma - by Marcus Mummius - 01-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-06-2008, 01:26 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 01-06-2008, 06:56 PM
Re: parma - by Gaius - 01-06-2008, 07:23 PM
My attempt at a Auxillia PARMA - by jkaler48 - 01-06-2008, 08:45 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-06-2008, 10:18 PM
Re: parma - by Peroni - 01-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-07-2008, 02:32 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 01-07-2008, 03:45 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-07-2008, 05:03 PM
Re: parma - by Crispvs - 01-07-2008, 11:19 PM
Re: parma - by M. Demetrius - 01-08-2008, 01:10 AM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-08-2008, 06:19 AM
Re: parma - by Crispvs - 01-08-2008, 03:45 PM
Re: parma - by caiusbeerquitius - 01-08-2008, 06:53 PM

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