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Late roman army (west)
#11
Thanks for the images - I hadn't seen them in such detail. The expressions of the Theodosian guards are wonderful - I assume the emperor has just done or said something particularly magnificent and awe-inspiring! Confusedhock:

Quote:I do think that recruiting one tribe (part) under one leader would be foolish though, because if you don't control the leader you end up with a rebellious unit.
True, although in the case of Crocus and his Alamanni this does seem to have been the case (I see there's a 2009 essay by Drinkwater that appears to question Speidel's assumptions, but it's too recent to be accessed via JSTOR!). There's also the Gothic contingent that joined Galerius for his Persian campaign, then returned home, presumably under their own leaders. Possibly this early use of 'foederati' (which surely had its roots in the third century) was discontinued in the fourth (perhaps precisely due to the institution of the auxilia palatinae?) , before returning again later in the century in its more known form?

Quote:As to these troops retaining their own clothing and weapons, I don't think so. For one, we never see this in Roman artwork
The guard troops would certainly be eager to dress in the best that Rome could provide - however, there's not much evidence for what the average German would be wearing at the time, so perhaps there wouldn't be too much difference anyway! It's interesting to speculate (returning slightly to topic) how different the limitanei troops of the Alammanic and Vandalic cohorts in Egypt (who could plausibly have been there since the third century) might have appeared from their 'brothers' in the auxilia.

Quote:Perhaps only a longer haircut distinguishes them from common Roman troops
Is this longer haircut itself a Germanic fashion? I wondered whether the longer hair of Constantius II and other later emperors might be an adoption of the styles of their own guard corps?

As an aside to the issue of Germans in guard units, the inscription from Trier to Hariulfus, son of Hanhavaldus of the Burgundian royalty, who died a protectore domesticus at the age of twenty, suggests that plenty of relatively unRomanised aristocratic Germans were taken into the guard (inscription undated, possibly Valentinian era - his uncle Reutilo set up the stone, and was probably another Burgundian protector himself)

Quote:I do not think that federates would enter such elite units. Federates were, after all, bound by a treaty that was in most cases forced upon them after a defeat by Roman forces.
But that's Speidel's point, surely? Were the laeti not compelled to provide military service? They had originally been defeated - although the Batavi (actually Franks?) of Toxiandra appear in guard units quite early, surely it was only defeat by the Romans that brought large numbers into service? - Rome first demonstrates to the barbarians that they have the power to (re)conquer territory or to repel incursions, then imposes conditions of resettlement and/or federate military service (although how much force might be involved, and how much this is just the panegyricists and others making things look good, is debatable!).
Nathan Ross
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Messages In This Thread
Late roman army (west) - by Ian - 03-02-2012, 01:51 AM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Robert Vermaat - 03-02-2012, 02:30 AM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Ian - 03-02-2012, 02:42 AM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Ian - 03-02-2012, 08:25 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Ian - 03-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Robert Vermaat - 03-04-2012, 10:26 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Nathan Ross - 03-05-2012, 04:18 AM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Robert Vermaat - 03-05-2012, 02:12 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Nathan Ross - 03-05-2012, 04:57 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Robert Vermaat - 03-05-2012, 06:24 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Nathan Ross - 03-05-2012, 09:41 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by sonic - 03-05-2012, 10:33 PM
Re: Late roman army (west) - by Urselius - 03-08-2012, 12:14 AM

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