12-02-2011, 07:57 AM
Mr Campbell wrote: 12 cohorts?! And different legions organised in different ways?!
No, there are not different legions organised in different ways but one legion organised in different ways. I’ve manage to identify a legion has three organisations. This trend began with the maniple legion. That is why I found for the battle of Ilipa, Polybius’ reference to one cohort and Livy’s three cohorts per wing conducting the outflanking manoeuvre are the same number of men. Polybius is relating to the higher echelon organisation and Livy a lower organisation. Both historians are correct. The problem is although the sizes vary in each organisational level, to confuse the issue, the primary sources call each differing organisational level a cohort.
Mr Campbell wrote: I'm not sure why you set such store by Isidore's evidence. We've already pointed out how unreliable he is.
You also pointed out the Theban legion is untrustworthy yet the numbers show a correlation to Isidore and Vegetius. In relation to Isidore’s military NUMBERS, no one has convinced me he is unreliable. However, when it comes to the third figure of 6585 men for the Theban legion, I will admit I have met my Waterloo. Two of the figures given for the Theban legion, plus Isidore and Vegetius have proven to me they are all reading from the same page.
Mr Campbell wrote: On the latter point, you are actually correct: his evidence does raise the question of "why 6000?" But that's a question that you must answer, as it's you who have decided to trust Isidore.
I’m confident my research will show that Isidore’s figure of 6000 can be trusted.
Renatus wrote: Amongst this muddle, is his attempt to reconstruct the numbers of the infantry and cavalry sections of his ancient legion (Veg. 2.6). This has all the appearance of a mathematical construct based on limited information. Underlying it is a belief in the 6000-man legion or, rather, a legion of at least that number which could be enlarged, if necessary (Veg. 2.2.3; 2.6.10). Even this is not established as, according to him, the legion actually numbered 6100 infantry plus 726 cavalry.
Thank you for your assessment of Vegetius. I have found Vegetius has made a simple mathematical mistake to arrive at the figure of 6100 due to his confusion regarding the various organisational levels of the legion.
No, there are not different legions organised in different ways but one legion organised in different ways. I’ve manage to identify a legion has three organisations. This trend began with the maniple legion. That is why I found for the battle of Ilipa, Polybius’ reference to one cohort and Livy’s three cohorts per wing conducting the outflanking manoeuvre are the same number of men. Polybius is relating to the higher echelon organisation and Livy a lower organisation. Both historians are correct. The problem is although the sizes vary in each organisational level, to confuse the issue, the primary sources call each differing organisational level a cohort.
Mr Campbell wrote: I'm not sure why you set such store by Isidore's evidence. We've already pointed out how unreliable he is.
You also pointed out the Theban legion is untrustworthy yet the numbers show a correlation to Isidore and Vegetius. In relation to Isidore’s military NUMBERS, no one has convinced me he is unreliable. However, when it comes to the third figure of 6585 men for the Theban legion, I will admit I have met my Waterloo. Two of the figures given for the Theban legion, plus Isidore and Vegetius have proven to me they are all reading from the same page.
Mr Campbell wrote: On the latter point, you are actually correct: his evidence does raise the question of "why 6000?" But that's a question that you must answer, as it's you who have decided to trust Isidore.
I’m confident my research will show that Isidore’s figure of 6000 can be trusted.
Renatus wrote: Amongst this muddle, is his attempt to reconstruct the numbers of the infantry and cavalry sections of his ancient legion (Veg. 2.6). This has all the appearance of a mathematical construct based on limited information. Underlying it is a belief in the 6000-man legion or, rather, a legion of at least that number which could be enlarged, if necessary (Veg. 2.2.3; 2.6.10). Even this is not established as, according to him, the legion actually numbered 6100 infantry plus 726 cavalry.
Thank you for your assessment of Vegetius. I have found Vegetius has made a simple mathematical mistake to arrive at the figure of 6100 due to his confusion regarding the various organisational levels of the legion.
