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ranked phalanx of vase
#30
Quote:A quick survey of my database shows approximately 20% of hoplites fighting with spear are depicted in a right foot forward pose. Often these figures are fighting from behind another hoplite, either standing or in the act of falling as in the example. My interpretation is that this is a position adopted to increase the range of the spear thrust.

Cole and all,

First I have to apologize for posting something so obviously unclear and then dissapearing for the follow-up. I am a big proponent of hoplites fighting in the outside ward- there are a bunch of threads on here where I have posted images from later fencing manuals. What was not clear is that I wrote that in "this image" I do not think they are in outside ward. In general I think the outside ward was for individual combat, rather than fighting within the battle-line, while high ward would better protect from the threat of spears coming in from enemies to your right in line. This is sort of like underhand strikes while in formation, it surely could have been done, but it is not optimal when in formation. In fact it is dangerous. You can tell I disagree with some recently published opinionsSmile

Later fencers "step through" in a lunge with the right arm. This is surely done to increase range as well as to put the body mass into the lunge. A shield held to the side makes this movement faster. Hoplites did not stike this way- with a locked elbow and extended arm- when stabbing overhand. The overhand strike develops its power form the torquing of the body and the long acceleration of the spear due to the great range of motion compared to an underhand strike. This can involve keeping the legs in 3/4 stance and using the lower body to counter the motion of the upper body (for those who have never held a spear, think of a Tennis forehand). It can involve extending off the rearward right leg and moving forward with the left knee bent to increse reach (which also lowers your body). You can also push off of the left leg and step up with the right. As Cole points out this is greatly increases reach and is in fact a very common posture for hoplites striking with swords. This is not really the same thing as a fencer's lunge because the strike lags behind the setting of the front foot. The need to torque the body means that the shield in front is less of a probelm because your motion requres swinging it around. In a battle line this would probably have been "stepping up" to be square to the line rather than moving past the plane of that line and exposing your right side. All of these postures can be seen on the pediment of the temple at Aphaia. We have to be careful of course because the statues need to fit the triangular area, but I think they represent possible stikes.

By the way, this moving up of the rear leg to strike is a major reason why hoplites end up squished into their shields if the rest of the file is jostling forward. When you move up, the man behind you may have taken that space as he moves forward. Keeping men off the backs of the forefighters takes a great deal of discipline when their weapons can be brought to bear. As Cole showed it is natural for second rankers to try and reach over the forefighters. Arrian even describes this action of second men crowding front men as "othismos".


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Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
ranked phalanx of vase - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 05-23-2011, 05:05 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by rrgg - 05-24-2011, 01:30 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by hoplite14gr - 05-25-2011, 06:14 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Robert Vermaat - 05-26-2011, 01:08 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by rrgg - 05-26-2011, 09:54 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Sean Manning - 05-26-2011, 09:11 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by PMBardunias - 05-27-2011, 01:33 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by dark41 - 05-27-2011, 03:59 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by PMBardunias - 05-27-2011, 06:52 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by PMBardunias - 05-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by rrgg - 05-29-2011, 12:43 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Sean Manning - 05-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by PMBardunias - 06-01-2011, 05:19 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Nicholas Cioran - 09-23-2011, 04:05 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Nicholas Cioran - 09-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Kineas - 09-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Sean Manning - 09-29-2011, 07:12 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Lyceum - 09-29-2011, 08:11 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Sean Manning - 09-30-2011, 04:49 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Lyceum - 10-01-2011, 11:50 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Sean Manning - 10-03-2011, 04:10 AM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by Lyceum - 10-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Re: ranked phalanx of vase - by PMBardunias - 10-12-2011, 10:26 PM

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