Centurio helmet crests or crests in general

[Graham Sumner]

Just to clarify, there are not "many" color depictions of crests, only a few (frescoes and mosaics). But yes, red and white are what are shown. There is also a literary reference to a cavalryman with a yellow crest. There are no indications of Romans using striped or multi-colored crests, though the Greeks certainly used them in the Late Archaic/Early Classical era (i.e., long before the Roman Principate).

I would certainly agree with Matt on this. I always feel if you are doing displays in public if they ask what you have based your reconstructions on that it is better to say that you have used such and such a reference or source, rather than admit you have made it up or just guessed!

Matt,

So are you suggesting I go with red or white since blue is not seen, ever?

That would be my advice. Like a broken record, "Stick with the evidence..." Even a literary reference from around your chosen era would be enough, but I don't think there is one.

Again good advice from Matt.

Mind you, I don't think blue is impossible, I just don't like to speculate when there are options with evidence behind them. I'm not even sure about the usual affiliation of blue with naval forces--I think that mostly comes from a later reference, but Jasper and the other navy guys will know more.

There is however more than just the one quote from Vegetius to link blue with the navy. This goes way back to the Republic. It is amazing that the evidence we have for clothing colours is quite consistent even over almost a thousand years and before anyone asks what colour blue did Vegetius mean when he said it was the same colour as the sea, well he adds that it was Venetian blue which is the same colour as the blue circus faction. So look at what a blue charioteer wears.

About Roman crest colors :

This is a reach but there is this fresco from Nero's 'Golden House' which shows an
unusual looking soldier wearing a bronze helmet with a greenish-looking crest.
It probably doesn't reflect contemporary armor and fashion but it may indicate
green was known to be used in Hellenistic times.

This piece of evidence might be seen as something of an oddity but there is in fact another. A stone sculpture clearly showing a Roman soldier in lorica segmentata with a corinthian helmet. Like lots of evidence, it has simply been lying around out there for years overlooked. It will be published very soon in 'Arms and Armour of the Imperial Roman Soldier' by Raffaele D'Anmato and yours truly. Sadly no colour surviving in that case but it might indicate the Guards really did wear a mixture of gear.

OTOH, weren't blades of grass also used for making a crest ?
I remember reading about such an archaeological find (in Britain ?)

I think you might be thinking of the mosshair 'crest', from Vindolanda. Could be a fly whisk in reality, as it would work really well as that and you need them at Vindolanda as anyone who has been there will tell you! But hey you never know it could have been used as a crest.

There is also a reference to yellow cresting (cavalry admittedly) in Arrian's 'Ars Tactica'

I wonder if the "yellow" crest was the natural horse hair colour or if they actually dyed it?

According to D'Amato the translation works better if it is a blonde rather than a yellow which suggests to me it is simply natural undyed horse hair. Blondes have more fun, as we all know!

Graham.