10-07-2008, 06:01 AM
Quote:Ruben wrote:
Quote:The ring-pommel daggers and swords only appear from the 1st c. BC among the Sarmatians, and they were in use until the 2nd c. AD, when they fell out of favour.....That seems a surprising assertion, given that the captions ( one of which is plainly readable) in the above illustrations refer to archaeological examples recovered from graves in Hungary, and firmly dated 3C AD....Certainly new types of weaponry appear with the westward spread of Alans and Huns - long iron swords and the powerful Hunnic bow for example - but among the western Sarmatians ( Iazyges, Rox-Alani etc ) archaeological finds suggest the ring-pommel swords ( daggers, gladius sized, and long) continued in use, according to the sources I have consulted. [ T. Sulimirski; various books and articles: Harmatta 'Studies on the History of the Sarmatians'; Knipovich T. 'Tanais'; Cambridge Ancient History ( '30's version) Vol VIII-XII; Parvan V 'Dacia';Minns E. 'Scythians and Greeks'; Talbot Rice 'The Scythians']
I'm working from Aleksandr V. Simonenko's "Bewaffnung und Kriegswesen der Sarmaten und spaeten Skythen," which is a comprehensive recent survey of the evidence, and Burchard Brentjes's "Waffen der Steppenvoelker" in Archaeologische Mitteilungen aus Iran 26, 1993.
I didn't say that ring pommel swords totally disappeared after the 2nd c. AD, just that they fell out of favour and were no longer the predominant sidearm.
Quote:As to the origins of the 'ring-pommel' style, it appears to have originated with the 'Prokhorovka' culture people in the early 2nd C BC, or possibly earlier, and becomes widespread with the expansion of 'Suslov' culture tribes and groups following the collapse of the Massagetae, between 174 and 160 BC , again according to the sources cited above.....
Yes, the ring-pommel sword has its roots farther east, but the discussion at hand is about the western Sarmatians, and they did not adopt the ring pommel sword until the early 1st c. BC. Ring pommel weapons only appear in the region between the Aral and Caspian seas and north of the Caucasus at that time, and they spread from there.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
