10-22-2009, 09:19 PM
Been away and missed this very exciting thread....
When I said that I could put a spear through cast bronze, I meant "cast bronze of the thickness you see in Corinthian helms." I agree (again! Ouch!) with Paul M-S that they are marvels of technology with each part the thickness that it needs to be--but no part of them is thick enough to warrant using pure "cast" bronze. However, I couldn't put a spear through 6 mm of cast bronze. Perhaps Herakles could.
I'd guess that some of the hardening would have come with planishing. The planishing stage is what I THINK we are seeing in the vases above int his thread and also in the gold-foil Etruscan necklace that illustrates a helmet maker at work. I wish I had a picture of that to share, but the best I can do is a citation, if anyone wants it.
I've either handled or looked very, very closely at only about a dozen original helmets and I've become very cautious about what is original since my discovery of how many of these helmets were altered in the 19th century (sometimes by professional fakers, sometimes by armorers) but in general my impression is that no part is heavier than it needs to be.
Now, as I fight in this stuff with full weight weapons, I'll say that I got my nose broken late last summer by a blow to the nose guard by a shield rim--and my nose guard had already been reinforced with a piece of spring steel and another piece of 16 gauge bronze. Since then, we (my group) have gotten very serious about the weight and manufacture of our helmets (no Deepeeka product need apply) and the heavier nasals make more sense. However, I'd have to wonder--why not just braise them on? The "bowl" of the helmet is not the "hard part" to fabricate, and pre-forming the bowl by casting seems--well, like a lot of work, if you are sand-casting bronze. On the other hand, I think you could do that,m with the nasal already cast--even as a protrusion from a tear-drop shaped thick shape--and then forge your helmet from there. Casting the skull to anything like a finished thickness and shape sounds very, very difficult, to me. But someone should try it and write us a treatise!
When I said that I could put a spear through cast bronze, I meant "cast bronze of the thickness you see in Corinthian helms." I agree (again! Ouch!) with Paul M-S that they are marvels of technology with each part the thickness that it needs to be--but no part of them is thick enough to warrant using pure "cast" bronze. However, I couldn't put a spear through 6 mm of cast bronze. Perhaps Herakles could.
I'd guess that some of the hardening would have come with planishing. The planishing stage is what I THINK we are seeing in the vases above int his thread and also in the gold-foil Etruscan necklace that illustrates a helmet maker at work. I wish I had a picture of that to share, but the best I can do is a citation, if anyone wants it.
I've either handled or looked very, very closely at only about a dozen original helmets and I've become very cautious about what is original since my discovery of how many of these helmets were altered in the 19th century (sometimes by professional fakers, sometimes by armorers) but in general my impression is that no part is heavier than it needs to be.
Now, as I fight in this stuff with full weight weapons, I'll say that I got my nose broken late last summer by a blow to the nose guard by a shield rim--and my nose guard had already been reinforced with a piece of spring steel and another piece of 16 gauge bronze. Since then, we (my group) have gotten very serious about the weight and manufacture of our helmets (no Deepeeka product need apply) and the heavier nasals make more sense. However, I'd have to wonder--why not just braise them on? The "bowl" of the helmet is not the "hard part" to fabricate, and pre-forming the bowl by casting seems--well, like a lot of work, if you are sand-casting bronze. On the other hand, I think you could do that,m with the nasal already cast--even as a protrusion from a tear-drop shaped thick shape--and then forge your helmet from there. Casting the skull to anything like a finished thickness and shape sounds very, very difficult, to me. But someone should try it and write us a treatise!
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
