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Helmet Roman or Carthaginian?
#54
Quote:but spanish???

M.VIB.M.

I highly doubt it. Though my knowledge of Hellenistic Spanish helmets is not too great, I've never seen a helmet of the type in the original post in a Spanish context. This type of helmet seems to not have been very popular west of Italy, and enjoyed widespread popularity amongst the Hellenistic armies of the east.

Quote:Stepping back for a moment to the Domitius Ahenobarbus relief, it has always seemed to me that the helmet on the right is an Italio-Corinthian of some sort.

I'm not sure what the "Italo-Corinthian" looks like. Is this the form of helmet where the Corinthian facepiece was moved up to form an ornamental visor? If so, I think you may be right, but there's no real way of knowing for sure unless the helmet could be seen head-on.

Quote:Apart from the thing around the brow, the helmet on the left looks to be the architypal Montifortino. Bearing in mind that the relief is not securely dated, it occurs to me that the thing around the brow might even be an L-section re-enforcing peak, as was fitted to a some extant late Montifortinos.

But that crimped rim is a pretty huge detail which proves it to not be a Montefortino. The cheek pieces also don't look like the stereotypical "jagged" Montefortino type either, but I know that cheek pieces could vary. In my opinion, this is simply one of a style of simple Hellenistic helms which became popular in the second and first centuries BC. They can be found all over the eastern Mediterranean and though they varied in ornamentation, they almost always had a relatively simple dome and a fairly small projecting rim which was crimped or wavy. For those of you who have Nick Sekunda's Osprey on the Republican Roman Army, look at page 14 to see a relief showing soldiers carrying scuta with unique-looking bosses and helmets which look very similar to the one worn by the left Ahenobarbus figure, albeit with simple volute decorations. This type of helmet is also worn by the other two soldiers on the Ahenobarbus relief:

[Image: ahenobarbus.jpg]

Note the simple dome shape, small flared rims (which have, unfortunately, been eroded quite a bit on the right figure), simple volute decoration above the rim, and simple cheek pieces.

It's always irritated me that scholars like Sekunda automatically say that the Ahenobarbus figures wear Montefortinos, because a little bit of close observation clearly proves otherwise!

Quote:The identification of the Montifortino in the Mikkalus seems certain but I notice a helmet to the left of it which looks like our old friend the 'Frankhelm' as discussed almost to death a couple of years ago.

The only detail that makes me hesitant to declare it a Montefortino is the point where the rim of the helmet meets at the front- though it's subtle, it looks decidedly non-Montefortino.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-14-2007, 06:23 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-14-2007, 07:00 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-14-2007, 07:04 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-14-2007, 07:46 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by drsrob - 01-14-2007, 09:11 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-14-2007, 10:04 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-14-2007, 10:41 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-14-2007, 10:50 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Peroni - 01-14-2007, 11:56 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-15-2007, 12:00 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Peroni - 01-15-2007, 12:09 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-15-2007, 10:00 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Peroni - 01-15-2007, 01:00 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-15-2007, 01:33 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-16-2007, 02:13 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-16-2007, 08:26 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-16-2007, 11:02 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-16-2007, 11:39 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-16-2007, 12:30 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-16-2007, 12:39 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-16-2007, 04:25 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-16-2007, 06:45 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-16-2007, 07:13 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-17-2007, 11:57 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-17-2007, 12:37 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by L C Cinna - 01-17-2007, 06:21 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Crispvs - 01-17-2007, 11:48 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-18-2007, 03:17 AM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by Tarbicus - 01-18-2007, 03:39 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Re: Helmet Roman or Carthaginian? - by MeinPanzer - 01-19-2007, 11:15 PM

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