Weight of Roman shields

[JeffF]

I was wondering what the weight in lbs was for the various types of shields, the long oval of the Republic era, the rectangular of the early imperial era, and the oval used by the auxiliaries of the early imperial era.

thanks,

Jeff

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Hoo, the short answer is, It varies! And there are precious few surviving examples to use, so mostly we're stuck with weighing our reconstructions which could be the wrong size, the wrong thickness, and the wrong wood!

That said, the Republican oval shield from Fayum (which may not be Roman at all, of course!) was a little over 20 pounds. The rectangular scutum from Dura Europas was only about 12 pounds, and it's pretty big compared to the other scutum from that site and shield cover parts, etc., from other places. I think the Doncaster shield was supposed to be in the 20 pound range, too, but not sure how complete that is.

In my group, most of our shields run c. 13 to 15 pounds. Not sure if we've weighed any of our auxiliary shields, but they're in the same ballpark. I have a feeling that for something you are going to be hauling on a 20-mile march on a regular basis for the next 20 years, weight is the biggest concern! Go light.

Vale,

Matthew

[Paullus Scipio]

I'm not certain, but I think "20 lbs" is just a translation of an ESTIMATED 8 kg, from a time when the Fayum shield was 'lost'.....

Now that it's turned up again ( in the Cairo Police Museum for some reason, IIRC !! hock: hock: ), perhaps it can get a modern examination.....

[JeffF]

12-20 lb quite heavy. The training shields made of wicker were double weighted? That makes them say 25-40 lbs. Useful for building up arm strength. Is it really practicle to punch with the scutum?

How does the weight compare with a hoplite shield?

Is there a noticeable weight savings if the boss is bronze instead of iron?

thanks,

Jeff

[Matthew Amt]

I'm not certain, but I think "20 lbs" is just a translation of an ESTIMATED 8 kg, from a time when the Fayum shield was 'lost'.....

Now that it's turned up again ( in the Cairo Police Museum for some reason, IIRC !! hock: hock: ), perhaps it can get a modern examination.....

Oho! Hadn't heard that. Yes, a re-examination would be VERY interesting!

12-20 lb quite heavy. The training shields made of wicker were double weighted? That makes them say 25-40 lbs.

Twelve pounds isn't bad, but 20 is awful! Vegetius is the one who refers to double-weight training shields, so we can't be sure what era he's talking about. So they were not necessarily exactly twice the weight of the heaviest shield around, but probably more in the "Oh, crap, I hate this thing!" range.

Is it really practicle to punch with the scutum?

I've heard that a straight punch may not be good for your own wrist, but fer sure it ain't gonna be good for the other guy's nose, either. But you can just body-slam with it braced against your shoulder, or use parts of the rim in evil ways.

How does the weight compare with a hoplite shield?

That's also in the 12 to 15 pound range.

Is there a noticeable weight savings if the boss is bronze instead of iron?

Nah. Bronze is only a few percent denser, and again the size and thickness of the boss varied quite a bit.

Vale,

Matthew

[jvrjenivs]

You all might found it interesting that Christian Koepfer, together with some students from Augsburg university are currently doing an experimental march with republican scuta, made with different methods (I mean, different covers etc). They were measured every day. So there is a report upcomming on this very issue.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks for that Jurjen, I'll be looking forward to seeing it.

[agrimensor]

while talking about shields ,can anybody help me on or several pattern for a scutum, or can you use your fantasy as well? where can i finf images or so?

[jvrjenivs]

while talking about shields ,can anybody help me on or several pattern for a scutum, or can you use your fantasy as well? where can i finf images or so?

Will send you a PM.

[Matthew Amt]

while talking about shields ,can anybody help me on or several pattern for a scutum, or can you use your fantasy as well? where can i finf images or so?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/scutum.html

That what you need? Always stick with the historical evidence if you can, and not your imagination!

Matthew

[M. Demetrius]

There are a few different patterns found on Trajan's Column, and on the Adamklissi Monument that you might be able to decipher and use, too.

[Paullus Scipio]

Here are a number of Praetorian and Legionary shield designs, accurately researched by me over 35 years ago from various monuments etc, which subsequently appeared in "Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome, 4th edition" P. Barker 1981, WRG publications...

i -iv are from the early years of the empire, v-viii are from Mainz and the oval version vii is from the grave stele of the aquilifer Gnaeus Musius of Legio XIV gemina, and therefore vi and vii can be identified as the emblem of that legion. Viii is a Praetorian shield from the Cancellaria relief ( late 1 C AD, despite the earlier shield type); ix-xxvi are Legionary designs from Trajan's column, the hexagonal designs xxvii and xxviii are from a Trajanic relief and probably represent the shields of the 'equites singulares' and 'Praetorian cavalry'; xxix-xxxi are from the column and held by Auxiliaries.....( incidently demonstrating that 'Auxilia Civium Romanum' likely used the rectangular 'scuta'.....

[M. Demetrius]

Scipii, do you have a larger picture of that available? My eyes would have trouble enlarging that to actual scutum size. Help an auld guy?

[Paullus Scipio]

Sorry guys.....my bad !

The original scan is too big, despite being B/W only, at 857 Kb, so I did a 'thumbnail', but I didn't realise until I tried it that you can't expand the thumbnail picture.

Anyone any suggestions on how I can put it up? I don't have an external site to post pictures on.....

OK, I've played with it and halved the size - which will affect picture quality I guess...


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