A Question on Caligae

[M. Demetrius]

If they are the right size for your feet, and the leather is oiled to make it softer, they don't rub at all. The only likely place for discomfort is in the heel, as most of the commercial caligae I've seen seem to make the heel much too wide, which allows for the foot to move in the shoe at that place. This is solved by wearing socks, which we know were sometimes worn by Romans. I've never had any trouble with the toe strips.

Now walking with hobnails on a slick surface, that's a different story.

Perhaps Ms. Driel-Murray has not worn them, and is going by speculation?

[D B Campbell]

Now walking with hobnails on a slick surface, that's a different story.

As Julianus (one of my favourite centurions) found to his cost: Jos., Bell. Jud. 6.81-88. :wink:

[Kegluneq]

Now walking with hobnails on a slick surface, that's a different story.

As Julianus (one of my favourite centurions) found to his cost: Jos., Bell. Jud. 6.81-88. :wink:

'Stupid death, stupid death, it's funny 'cos it's true...' I think this is one of my favourite Roman military anecdotes, simply because it combines epic manliness with a completely ridiculous cause of death.

My impression of hobnailed boots is that they were a bit like modern football cleats, and much better suited to 'offroad' use. Are they better on earth and mud, or are the hobnails too close together for there to be any major differences in grip?

[66kbm]

I think one has to experience wearing them on several different surfaces, of which the Romans only had a few, to appreciate thier pros and cons. No roads, as we no them today, we in existance before the Legions built them. If one was to wear them all the time then one would be very used to thier limitations in certain circumstances.
Never had a problem with mine in over 2 years courtesy of Dave Marsden, great "boots"
Kevin

[M. Demetrius]

Right you are, Kevin. To walk on a hard surface like a polished floor, smooth sidewalk, etc., one has to be sure his weight is always centered over his feet. :!: No leaning, lunging, leaping, or sudden stops.

On grass or dirt, they're perfectly suited -- which is why they used them, coupled with it takes a lot longer to wear out hobnails than sole leather.

I suspect that by the time the upper leather wore out, the hobnails were blunt enough that the whole shoe just got replaced. Evidently, they threw the old ones in a well, at least sometimes. :?: :?:

You really should get a pair, Mr. Matthew. That would settle many questions. For starts, any thick socks will serve.

[Kegluneq]

You really should get a pair, Mr. Matthew. That would settle many questions. For starts, any thick socks will serve.

I have to admit the idea has a strong appeal - not least because I'm almost on to my fourth pair of trainers this year! :unsure: How much do a good (accurate) pair cost?

[Pointer]

I am looking for either Caligae Sandals or Boots in a US size 13... Anyone know where I can get a pari that size?

[66kbm]

Firstly i would find someone who will make them "custom" to your own feet. I personally would not recommend anything "off the shelf". Prices vary but for around £75-ish/$100-ish you should get you a really good customised pair to fit your own feet. I wont go into the ins and outs of sizing but will say, if your foot can "roll" in them, they are too big.
Kevin

[Crispianus]

Having looked at a great many "replica" Caligae I would say the majority are not very accurate to the originals, My impression is that some original Caligae could have a strap or two passing bettween the toes, but with others this clearly was'nt the case as the straps in question are simply too wide at the base and dont appear to have been designed for this purpose..

When designing a pattern for a historical shoe you need to take it back to its original unstretched and undeformed state then stretch the leather round a last preferably made for your foot with due allowance for the style etc...

Patrick...
Most original Caligae are relaively small, size 13 would probarbly need a new or special pattern(and last) so I couldnt see it being that cheap as it takes time to develope....
My suggestion is find a good bespoke historical shoemaker who will produce for you an Accurate one off, rather then buy an off the shelf item even if you can find one in your size.

[M. Demetrius]

My impression is that some original Caligae could have a strap or two passing bettween the toes,

Besides the one writer's opinion you list, is there any other source for this idea?

I don't claim to be a shoe expert (or an expert about much of anything), but I've never seen a single example of military boots--caligae--that have between-toe straps. That includes museum specimens, reproductions, paintings and mosaics. There are numerous variants of civilian sandals that do, but these are civilian shoes. There are some Greek shoes that have these toe straps.

Perhaps the question really is one of terminology. Not every shoe that had leather strips instead of solid sides can rightly be called "caligae". That one shoe name is very specifically limited to a certain military boot that was only worn for a century or so.

Shoes constructed with a between-toe strap have the front of the sole not supported by anything past the toe strap. This makes for a weaker shoe design, as it is possible to drag that front of the toe, causing it to fold backwards. This can cause the toe loop to fail at its attachment point through the sole, and/or upset the wearer's balance. I have had this experience with some shoes of this type that I was wearing during mock gladiator combat. A failed shoe in combat could cause the death of the wearer. I wouldn't suggest toe-strap type sandals for combat, if there are other choices.

[Crispianus]

"Besides the one writer's opinion you list, is there any other source for this idea?"

Actually I didnt list anyone but rather this is my impression based on observation of the thiness and placement of the straps in some Caligae, I'm not suggesting a Soleae type arrangement but rather that some of the straps could be drawn bettween the toes, however without the foot that goes with the Caligae we will never know for sure...
Theres a reconstruction (which I dont agree with because the leathers too thin and straps seem badly placed but are drawn bettween the toes) shown in "Romische Lederfunde aus Mainz" by J.Gopfrich.. and also this image, I think this is probarbly what its all about..


[attachment=5765]caligavatikanischemuseensmall.jpg[/attachment]



[attachment=5764]caligavatikanischemuseendetail2.jpg[/attachment]


Is it likely?... there are many different variations of feet so I think its a possibility that some at least could have worn their Caligae in this way...

[M. Demetrius]

You are right. You didn't list the book. I was mistaken to apply it to you.

I can't imagine, however, having worn some shoes with between-toe strips and different sorts of caligae, that anything going between toes would be the least bit comfortable. "Could be" and "might have" are not things I personally would argue against. But if socks with toes were worn (and some socks did not have toe covering areas), there would be no good way to wear caligae like that.

Straying off topic even further, there WERE socks that had the big toe separated, like Japanese socks, and these were made for the very same reason: to wear with shoes that have a thong between the toes.