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+--- Thread: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? (/showthread.php?tid=3823)
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Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Innis - 09-13-2005
Hello all,
I am new to the reenacting sector so this is my first post. I have been wondering what is considered the "proper" (as in as historically accurate as possible) helmet lining for a Imperial Gallic Type E helmet? I know it is possible to buy SCA helmet padding but I was wondering what ia actually proper and how one would go about obtaining it and installing it? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Innis
Most of us use felt liners - Neuraleanus - 09-13-2005
Felt likely isn't too far off. You make a liner by sewing together four pieces of 1/4 inch thick felt shaped in the form of spherical triangles (triangles with rounded sides). Two pieces are convex and the other two are concave. Fit the four pieces together and you get a dome.
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Cacaius - 09-14-2005
This is the next thing we dont know exactly about roman army.
There is no visible holes on roman helmets like for example on some medieval helmets .. holes needed to stich the lining.
On the other side they SHOULD have something between head and helmet, because of two reasons
- to protect your head against hits on helmet, there should be something to absorb energy from this hit.
Becasue of that lining was used in every later periods in history.
Romans where wise enough to find out that the helmet without lining works bad.
- it was production for army, it means that helmets perhaps were only in few different sizes .
So lining is needed to fill in your head comfortable inside the helmet taken from assignment or from dead companion.
It's important to wear helmet comfortable when you are on the march many hours and you have to fight as well.
This is a fight for survive, for your life. They knew about it.
In every period in history soldiers do everything to maximize comfort of wearing their equipment
Of course it the simplest way to make a lining as a felted cap. Becasue they had such knowledge and it work perfectly. Felt is very flexible and you fill very comfortable with it.
But I am always wondering, why there is no sources for it, if they used such caps not attached to the helmets there should be some pictures or frescos or sculpture with legionaires wearing only cap. ... or maybe they were attached .. on glue
Anyway. In my opinion felted hat is the best choice.
BUT please dont make it like Neuraleanus advised. Its modern advantage.. to sew everything
Felted hats and caps and even boots where made through all history to 20 c. from fleece in ONE PIECE.
Please see my wife's production below. Its simple technique.
Below next pictures with medieval hats made by my wife ... and my children too.
![[Image: czapka_filcowa_1.jpg]](http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/rzym/czapka_filcowa_1.jpg)
![[Image: czapka_filcowa_2.jpg]](http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/rzym/czapka_filcowa_2.jpg)
![[Image: plemnik.jpg]](http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/filcowe/plemnik.jpg)
![[Image: kakaj_bejbs.jpg]](http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/filcowe/kakaj_bejbs.jpg)
![[Image: moje_dzieciaki.jpg]](http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/filcowe/moje_dzieciaki.jpg)
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Innis - 09-14-2005
Thanks everyone for your replies! I came across padding like Neuraleanus suggested here: [url:3dtwmrxm]http://www.albion-swords.com/armor/roman/padding.htm[/url]. But that even opened up more questions. What about the cheekguards?
Cacaius, I like your suggestion because for me it is easier to do. My question is what is the material about the base of the cap and how is it attacted? Also is felt easy to form or does it require some sort of seamstriss knowledge? Also, I have seen a fresco (I believe from Pompeii) that showed soldiers with their heads wrapped up. Is this padding or bandages? I wonder about this as well.
As for the checkguards how would one attach padding there? From that website it looks sewn but that has to be impossible. I do not know. Thanks again to the both of you for your help!
Innis
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Cacaius - 09-14-2005
The fabric about the base of my cap is simply piece of linen stiched to the cap.
About felting I belive you can find a lot information in the internet too.
I have just found few websites by google.com
http://www.hatshapers.com/Felting_Instructions.htm
http://www.peak.org/~spark/feltlistFAQ. ... ake%20Felt
As I said it is simple technique. But you need a lot of experience how to make nice surface, how to felt levels of fleece that they will join altogether, etc.
all the best
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Robert Vermaat - 09-14-2005
Quote:This is the next thing we dont know exactly about roman army.You are of course talking about Roman helmets from the Principate, not from the Dominate, who do have visible holes:
There is no visible holes on roman helmets like for example on some medieval helmets .. holes needed to stich the lining.
![[Image: berkasovo1medium.jpg]](http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/berkasovo1medium.jpg)
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Magnus - 09-14-2005
I did this for my cheek guards (and now they're super comfy). First, I sewed some felt to a cut out of leather which matched the shape of the cheek pieces. Then, I just glued the leather to the inside of the cheek piece and voila.
Oh, and my helmet liner is felt too.
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - mcbishop - 09-14-2005
Quote:This is the next thing we dont know exactly about roman army.
There is no visible holes on roman helmets like for example on some medieval helmets .. holes needed to stich the lining.
On the other side they SHOULD have something between head and helmet, because of two reasons
There is a helmet from Vindonissa that is to be published soon which was found in a leather bag and included its lining. The word 'Filz' was used in describing that lining to me: felt. As soon as I have the details of the publication, I will post it to RAT.
Mike Bishop
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - A_Volpe - 09-14-2005
Thank the Gods for Vindonissa!
And Corbridge!
I'm so amazed how they're finding such significant finds at Vind!
yay!
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - aitor iriarte - 09-15-2005
Mike,
Do you know which type of helmet it is or, at least, its approximate chronology?
Aitor
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - mcbishop - 09-15-2005
Quote:Do you know which type of helmet it is or, at least, its approximate chronology?
It is drawn and briefly described (as 'Weisenau' type, 1st century AD) in Ernst Künzl's article on 'hairy helmets':
Künzl, E. 1999: ‘Fellhelme. Zu den mit organischem Material dekorierten römischen Helmen der frühen Kaiserzeit und zur imitatio Alexandri des Germanicus’ in Schlüter, W. and Wiegels, R. (eds.), Rom, Germanien und die Ausgrabungen von Kalkriese. Internationaler Kongress der Universität Osnabrück und des Landschaftverbandes Osnabrücker Land e.V. vom 2. bis 5. September 1996, Osnabrück, 149–68
Mike Bishop
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS - 09-16-2005
Quote:There is a helmet from Vindonissa that is to be published soon which was found in a leather bag and included its lining. The word 'Filz' was used in describing that lining to me: felt. As soon as I have the details of the publication, I will post it to RAT.
Mike Bishop
[size=150:2nmv3cqj]M[/size]ike, you are making MY day... any idea when "soon" is???
Thanks, Marsh
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - aitor iriarte - 09-16-2005
Thanks, Mike!
Aitor
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - Caballo - 09-18-2005
"There is a helmet from Vindonissa that is to be published soon which was found in a leather bag and included its lining. The word 'Filz' was used in describing that lining to me: felt. As soon as I have the details of the publication, I will post it to RAT.
Mike Bishop"
My thanks too, Mike, and looking forward hugely to more details.
Firstly, a possible solution to the helmet lining debate- and secondly, if the helmet is well enough preserved to have the lining, the metal must also be in great shape?
I am perplexed by the title "Fellhelme. Zu den mit organischem Material dekorierten römischen Helmen der frühen Kaiserzeit und zur imitatio Alexandri des Germanicus’ ". My (VERY) limited German translates this as "Skin? helmet; Roman decorated helmet with organic material from the Early Empire in imitation of Alexander of Germanicus". I am sure that one `of the German speaking RAT membership could do a better translation?
Zu hilfe?
Britannicus
Re: Suggestions on Helmet Lining? - hoplite14gr - 09-18-2005
In the Osprey Elite series Grek hoplite they have a photo of potery showing a hoplitew ith upturned cheeks of a chalkidic helemt showing clearly some pudding. Romans were sensible people and adopted sensible practiceses.
Kind regards
Stefanos