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+--- Thread: Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia (/showthread.php?tid=22293)
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Eleatic Guest - 03-12-2013
Hello,
do you know any reenactor who has used (or still does) the shield pattern of the Armigeri or Mauri Osismiaci in the Notitia Dignitatum? I would be interested in photos for an upcoming paper - if the picture quality and historical accuracy is ok.
Best,
Stefan
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-12-2013
This has all the shield patterns hre:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/NotitiaPatterns.html
But I know the Mauri aren't listed and I don't think the Armegeri are either.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Medicus matt - 03-12-2013
Evan, both units are listed (and their patterns shown) in the Notitia, hence the links in Stefan's post.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Flavivs Aetivs - 03-12-2013
Oh, I stand corrected.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Robert Vermaat - 03-13-2013
Hi Stefan,
Quote:do you know any reenactor who has used (or still does) the shield pattern of the Armigeri or Mauri Osismiaci in the Notitia Dignitatum?
I'm not sure, I'll have look through my files. Personally I wouldn't use either of these because of the yin-yang discussion. Most people would completely misunderstand it and assume you're a buddhist Roman!
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Eleatic Guest - 03-13-2013
You mean it is burnt ground? ;-) Do you know of any other name for the yin yang diagram in any Western language? I don't. There is no specific term for the Celtic sign, so the misunderstanding has semantic roots. We lack a word of our own for it and neither scholars nor scientists have come up with one so far. So I guess we have to lay the blame for misunderstandings before our own door.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Robert Vermaat - 03-13-2013
Quote: So I guess we have to lay the blame for misunderstandings before our own door.I'm not sure if I mean that, but I don't agree with your final conclusion. Lack of knowledge can either be lack of sources (we don't know the ancient name , if there was any, of this symbol) or it can be through lack of study. If a member of the public call me a buddhist Roman (or a Viking, or a knight), it's not because I make the wrong impression, but because they never saw a Roman before (well, a Late Roman). The question that I ask myself is whether I want to make my appearance extra confusing, by adding a symbol which may be no more than a fanciful piece of decoration by the late 4th century, but nowadays known as a religious symbol. educating the public is one think, too much education another.
Same with the swastika. Either turning right or left, fact is it was used as decorative symbol by the late Bronze Age, but we don't know why or how it was called. But if I would decorate my tunic with them (as was done by the 4th century), some members of the public would call me a nazi Roman.
Concluding, it's to be avoided.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Eleatic Guest - 03-13-2013
I think I know what you mean. The same exclusion mechanism also is at work in movie making. Because the audience knows that movies are fictional, but expects them to adhere to reality, they are forced to leave out things, events, behaviour which did happen but which, in its exceptionality and oddity, is so hard to believe that their occurrence would undermine the movie's intention to appear realistic. Movies have to make sense - same constraint apparently exists in reenactment.
Addendum: lies also have to make more sense than sometimes truth does because they have to appear truthful in order to work.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Eleatic Guest - 03-16-2013
No-one in this forum?
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Eleatic Guest - 05-30-2013
This French group is using them a lot.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - M. Val. Naso - 05-30-2013
A bit offtopic, but seems right here: do you think there is any chance, I might find shield design for units from Valeria Ripensis, other than the NotDig? Shame, but they are not in them, only listed, but not with a drawn design.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - PhilusEstilius - 05-30-2013
Please excuse me for also going a bit off topic but it becomes a little confusing when we consider the Dux Britanniarum, in particular the Praefectus Numeri barcariorum Tigrisiensium for there station was Arbeia and in the picture map this station is shown as being inland from the sea. ??
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Robert Vermaat - 05-30-2013
Quote:A bit offtopic, but seems right here: do you think there is any chance, I might find shield design for units from Valeria Ripensis, other than the NotDig? Shame, but they are not in them, only listed, but not with a drawn design.Not a chance I'm afraid. In such cases I always advice groups to use their imagination. We at Fectio sure did.
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Robert Vermaat - 05-30-2013
Quote:Please excuse me for also going a bit off topic but it becomes a little confusing when we consider the Dux Britanniarum, in particular the Praefectus Numeri barcariorum Tigrisiensium for there station was Arbeia and in the picture map this station is shown as being inland from the sea. ??Brian, they are the 'bargemen of the Tigris'. And you think that their fort being 'inland' is the biggest problem? :woot:
Re Reenactors with Shield Designs from the Notitia - Flavivs Aetivs - 05-30-2013
Yet you at fectio essentially copied the design of Marcommani Iuniores.
I had some ideas for the emblem of I Audiatricis, notably that pattern often shown on some of the columns like the (now lost) column of Arcadius that resembles the classic auxillia shield patter.