Posts: 1,308
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
Hello,
do you know any reenactor who has used (or still does) the shield pattern of the Armigeri or Mauri Osismiaci in the Notitia Dignitatum? I would be interested in photos for an upcoming paper - if the picture quality and historical accuracy is ok. 
Best,
Stefan
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 4,861
Threads: 129
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation:
32
This has all the shield patterns hre:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/...terns.html
But I know the Mauri aren't listed and I don't think the Armegeri are either.
Posts: 1,002
Threads: 30
Joined: Sep 2008
Reputation:
1
Evan, both units are listed (and their patterns shown) in the Notitia, hence the links in Stefan's post.
"Medicus" Matt Bunker
[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
Posts: 4,861
Threads: 129
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation:
32
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 415
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation:
76
Hi Stefan,
Quote:do you know any reenactor who has used (or still does) the shield pattern of the Armigeri or Mauri Osismiaci in the Notitia Dignitatum?
I'm not sure, I'll have look through my files. Personally I wouldn't use either of these because of the yin-yang discussion. Most people would completely misunderstand it and assume you're a buddhist Roman!
Posts: 1,308
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
You mean it is burnt ground? ;-) Do you know of any other name for the yin yang diagram in any Western language? I don't. There is no specific term for the Celtic sign, so the misunderstanding has semantic roots. We lack a word of our own for it and neither scholars nor scientists have come up with one so far. So I guess we have to lay the blame for misunderstandings before our own door.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 415
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation:
76
Quote: So I guess we have to lay the blame for misunderstandings before our own door.
I'm not sure if I mean that, but I don't agree with your final conclusion. Lack of knowledge can either be lack of sources (we don't know the ancient name , if there was any, of this symbol) or it can be through lack of study. If a member of the public call me a buddhist Roman (or a Viking, or a knight), it's not because I make the wrong impression, but because they never saw a Roman before (well, a Late Roman). The question that I ask myself is whether I want to make my appearance extra confusing, by adding a symbol which may be no more than a fanciful piece of decoration by the late 4th century, but nowadays known as a religious symbol. educating the public is one think, too much education another.
Same with the swastika. Either turning right or left, fact is it was used as decorative symbol by the late Bronze Age, but we don't know why or how it was called. But if I would decorate my tunic with them (as was done by the 4th century), some members of the public would call me a nazi Roman.
Concluding, it's to be avoided.
Posts: 1,308
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
I think I know what you mean. The same exclusion mechanism also is at work in movie making. Because the audience knows that movies are fictional, but expects them to adhere to reality, they are forced to leave out things, events, behaviour which did happen but which, in its exceptionality and oddity, is so hard to believe that their occurrence would undermine the movie's intention to appear realistic. Movies have to make sense - same constraint apparently exists in reenactment.
Addendum: lies also have to make more sense than sometimes truth does because they have to appear truthful in order to work.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 1,308
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
No-one in this forum?
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 1,308
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
This French group is using them a lot.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 317
Threads: 19
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation:
6
A bit offtopic, but seems right here: do you think there is any chance, I might find shield design for units from Valeria Ripensis, other than the NotDig? Shame, but they are not in them, only listed, but not with a drawn design.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
Posts: 2,913
Threads: 21
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation:
1
Please excuse me for also going a bit off topic but it becomes a little confusing when we consider the Dux Britanniarum, in particular the Praefectus Numeri barcariorum Tigrisiensium for there station was Arbeia and in the picture map this station is shown as being inland from the sea. ??
Brian Stobbs
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 415
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation:
76
Quote:A bit offtopic, but seems right here: do you think there is any chance, I might find shield design for units from Valeria Ripensis, other than the NotDig? Shame, but they are not in them, only listed, but not with a drawn design.
Not a chance I'm afraid. In such cases I always advice groups to use their imagination. We at Fectio sure did.
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 415
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation:
76
Quote:Please excuse me for also going a bit off topic but it becomes a little confusing when we consider the Dux Britanniarum, in particular the Praefectus Numeri barcariorum Tigrisiensium for there station was Arbeia and in the picture map this station is shown as being inland from the sea. ??
Brian, they are the 'bargemen of the Tigris'. And you think that their fort being 'inland' is the biggest problem? :woot:
Posts: 4,861
Threads: 129
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation:
32
Yet you at fectio essentially copied the design of Marcommani Iuniores. 
I had some ideas for the emblem of I Audiatricis, notably that pattern often shown on some of the columns like the (now lost) column of Arcadius that resembles the classic auxillia shield patter.
|
