Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus

Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Printable Version

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Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 02-22-2008

honestates ei donabo quoque, qui me adiuvat - I will also give laudes to him, who helps me

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-22-2008

Well, that's me out then :lol: !

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 02-23-2008

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/289/apronxa4.jpg

Tomorrow I will buy brass, and want to be sure about the thickness. So, I have understood the parts in the circle of the picture above are 2.5mm or 0.1"thick. I only need part 1 and 2. Could anyone help? I don`t want to buy the wrong brass :? .

David, do you have paint? If you have it you can number the parts and make a legenda in your post. I hope it Smile

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 02-24-2008

^Who Knows It Smile

?

Today I have made metal stamps to stamp the metal into a form Big Grin

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Peroni - 02-24-2008

Only the part 2 in your drawing is 2.5mm thick (a casting)

The part 1 (the terminal/crescent shape) are no more than 1.2mm thick
generally.

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Marcus Mummius - 02-24-2008

Salve Niels,

Studs: de schijfjes op de 'schortstroken'
Apron strap: een 'schortstrook'
Terminal: het hangertje dat op het uiteinde van een schortstrook bevestigd is

In je tekening is nummer 1 de juiste manier. Het metaal is rond het leder gevouwen.

I hope this helps.

Vale,
Jef

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 02-24-2008

Hey Jef, I have given laudes to you Big Grin

.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8945 ... 283cv7.jpg
These are my brass stamps who I have made today.

I have understood the leather strips are called: apron straps.

There is only some confusion about the buckle and dagger frogs. My plan was to make a mall and fill it with tin. I is not very strong so I put a metal frame in there. But I think it is not authentic. How did the Romans make it, especially the dagger frogs?

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8937/imagounakf8.jpg

What was the length of the space of the indicated area? If I know this I could calculate the shape. Tomorrow I will buy brass Smile

Thanks for helping

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Peroni - 02-25-2008

Quote:How did the Romans make it, especially the dagger frogs?

http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... ucts_id=58

http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... ucts_id=56

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 02-25-2008

Thanks, I knew this site yet. It is not allowed to buy these by my mother... :roll: I can`t buy and I regret...

So I have to make it by myself. Does anyone have a tutorial or something else about how I could forge it Smile

Also I would like to know the length of the space indicated with green.

Marcus Mummius, Pm sent

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8937/imagounakf8.jpg

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 05-02-2008

I have almost finished the metal parts of my balteus. But which leather did the use? Was it leather of a horse, a cow, or something else?

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - brennivs - tony drake - 05-02-2008

Most leather used is cow, never used horse but pig the leather is stretchy so stay with cow, Martin Moser my have some research on leather used so it might be worth dropping him a line.
Regards Brennivs Big Grin

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Tim Edwards - 05-03-2008

Niels,

In my opinion, for belt leather you could take one of two options:

a) Thick calf - This is what most reenactors choose. Make sure its not modern chrome tanned or split leather. A strap end from Vindolanda appears to be made from this material

b) Thin goat - This is a double layer, sewn together at the edges with waxed linen thread. A great many of the bog finds from Germania Libera of roman associated baldrics and belts are made in this manner. This mirrors finds from within the bounds of the empire, most notably the apron strap from Mainz, which is one of the few scraps of evidence we have for belt construction.

Given the choice, I would go for b!

I'm about to witch my own belt to this style, as I believe its more authentic. The strap end from Vindolanda has fittings characteristic of horse harness, making me think that the thick leather strapping we usually use would probably be better reserved for horse tack!

The only reason everyone seems to take option A is because most simply copy other members of their group, making the assumption their mates got it right!

Once you've chosen your leather, you'll need to consider colour. Some people consider the light colour of modern natural leather not dark enough for the methods the romans used in their veg tan process, though you'd need a more informed opinion than mine on this area.

But hey - why not dye it? Many of the baldrics visible on second century military portraits from Egypt are red. I recently saw a grave stone of a soldier in the capitoline museum which had traces of paint still adhering, again the belt was red.

Hope that helps,

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Tim Edwards - 05-03-2008

And heres the third century chap with the traces of red paint on belt and baldric

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Tarbicus - 05-03-2008

Quote:Also I would like to know the length of the space indicated with green.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8937/imagounakf8.jpg

You should be very careful about this. Go to the RA.com Imagebase and take a look at the full length gravestone portraits. The pugio is pretty much always held tight to the frogs, and don't get sidetracked by the re-enactors who traditionally have their pugiones suspended low on long leather straps. There are even some who suspect the pugio rings were attached directly somehow to the frogs, with no leather between ring and frog (including me, though it's a difficult one to support).

Before copying other re-enactors always always always look at the gravestones first, taking note of the period they come from. http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/index.php

Re: Questions about the forging of a pugio and a balteus - Latinitas - 05-03-2008

[Image: cingulum2.jpg]

Thanks to Tim Edwards and Tarbicus. I am maybe confused but I believe the balderic was a belt to carry a sword like this imagine: http://www.romancoins.info/balteus-Lyon ... rd-mcb.gif You see the belt.

I`m making the belt you can see at the first picture in this post. To prevent mistakes: is the leather used in the first picture red and made at the way you tell in point b? I cant buy leather tomorrow so I have to wait until Monday. The apron pendants are finished Smile

About the space between the pugio froggs: I think 15 cm (about 5.9 inch(es)) between the middle of the disc.