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+--- Thread: The Hallaton helmet (/showthread.php?tid=20090)
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-13-2012
Quote:mcbishop post=303799 Wrote:Symbolic of... a helmet? :-DQuote:it was a symbolic item not designed to be worn in battle.
Or the owners head size...?
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Vindex - 01-13-2012
Quote:[quote]An alternative theory that the helmet was seized as booty can be discounted because it was a symbolic item not designed to be worn in battle. Dr Hill said: “It would be the equivalent of taking something worn for the passing-out ceremony at Sandhurst and packing it in your bag when you go to Afghanistan.”[quote]
Well someone at the BM is talking utter tosh, it seems. Depressing, really, assuming the attribution is accurate.
Mike Bishop
What a load of cobblers!
There's not enough room in your Bergen for all the crap you get at Sandhurst!! Everything packed for operations is FUNCTIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!
<gets off soap box>
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-13-2012
You mean you had to leave 'My LittlePony' behind Moi!!???
hock: :-o (and he runs for cover at light speed to escape)
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Vindex - 01-13-2012
Quote:You mean you had to leave 'My LittlePony' behind Moi!!???
(and he runs for cover at light speed to escape)
You can run, Byron...
...but you can't hide :wink:
Johnny Frost used to pack his hunting horn and umbrella (he of Parachute Regiment/Arnhem fame)...I've seen rather TOO many teddy bears in completely the wrong hands...I always used to take my jim jams
...and a certain full colonel was seen by yours truly running around the deserts of Iraq in a silk dressing gown as we had a night alert...
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-13-2012
Ha ha! I assume they matched his silk stockings... :mrgreen:
Sorry, I'll stop now!
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Vindex - 01-13-2012
Quote:Ha ha! I assume they matched his silk stockings... :mrgreen:
Sorry, I'll stop now!
:mrgreen:
I will too as we are WAAAAY off topic...
Re: The Hallaton helmet - PhilusEstilius - 01-13-2012
I am getting a bit confused about this helmet where we are hearing all this about Britons fighting for the Romans and a helmet that was not made for wearing in battle, bla bla bla !!!
However in the first place we were told the thing was in bits and had to be put back together again a bit better than humpty dumpty I might add.
It's a Cavalrymans helmet for heavens sake and looking at how it was found in the ground might even indicate it was all a stack of loot, with the silver decoration cut up like a load of hack silver.
There appears to be an awful lot of romanticism going on here about this, will some one please tell us just how many cheek plates there were and stop the assumption it had this Emperor style plates fitted for they appear to just be standard cavalry type cheek plates.
Re: The Hallaton helmet - jho - 01-13-2012
The december 2010 report states that there were 6 cheek pieces and gives the following information on them (although it is not stated which piece of information relates to which cheek piece):
1 cheek piece was found inside the helmet
1 cheek piece still had the wiring inside the hinge but is was bent as if the cheek piece had been removed by force
1 cheek piece shows the "Emperor" (apparently this was not the one found inside the helmet)
2 cheek pieces form a matching pair and are decorated with equestrian figures
1 cheek piece shows a bearded figure
2 cheek pieces had designs not yet legible
There is one other interesting piece of information: The two ear guards found were of differing sizes. At that time it was seen as evidence that more than one helmet had been deposited. No mention is made of this anymore and it is in fact not unusual with Roman helmets that fittings are not symmetrical but there is still the possibility that more than one helmet was deposited.
Although it is largely futile to speculate on the circumstances of deposition, my thoughts are the following: If all cheek pieces belong to this helmet, it is rather unlikely to be a battle trophy (one would not normally carry spare cheek pieces into battle; unless, of course, one assumes that it was stolen from the baggage rather than taken from its owner in battle). However, although it may be possible to prove that individual cheek pieces did not belong to the helmet (because they do not fit); I think it unlikely that it will be possible to prove that they cannot have been fitted to another helmet.
"Pars pro toto" depositions of cheek pieces are not at all unusual. Just think of the deposition of 8 or more cheek pieces at the 1st century temple complex at Oedenburg, France or the 20-30 cheek pieces deposited in a trench at Houten, Netherlands. In these two cases it is much more likely that the cheek pieces were deposited by their owners than that they consisted of war booty, whatever that may mean for the Hallaton deposit.
Re: The Hallaton helmet - PhilusEstilius - 01-13-2012
I do begin to wonder if this is all just a collection of material that belonged to a craftsman or blacksmith, with there being a collection of cheekplates and a damaged helmet that had been chopped in bits.
Re: The Hallaton helmet - D B Campbell - 01-13-2012
Quote:... just a collection of material that belonged to a craftsman or blacksmith ...Wasn't there a massive hoard of coins as well? (Difficult to tell, when it hasn't been written up yet.) Is anyone else thinking Lexden, Folly Lane, ...? :-?
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Caballo - 01-14-2012
"Is anyone else thinking Lexden, Folly Lane, ...? "
John Creighton, in "Britannia, the creation of a Roman province" page 48/49 is leaning that way....
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aG-ulE1cVMAC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=lexden+folly+lane+roman&source=bl&ots=pIA_B6-B_h&sig=J11T-6pm1fCh5AlVoU6luO_qoEw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mXAQT5WoJ8OBhQec0vytAg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=lexden%20folly%20lane%20roman&f=false
Re: The Hallaton helmet - scotti73 - 01-14-2012
The helmet was indeed found with a large hoard of coins as well as lots of boar/pig bones.
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Vindex - 01-14-2012
5000 gold and silver...including one dated to 211BC, so hardly "currency" in the true sense of the word (ie current!)
Am I also right in thinking this find was by a metal detectorist (on Scheduled Land??) or did I imagine that?
Re: The Hallaton helmet - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-14-2012
Yes, in fact there is a picture of the coins in one of the links, I saw a few days back.
They looked to be of Celtic design.
Re: The Hallaton helmet - D B Campbell - 01-14-2012
Quote:5000 gold and silver...including one dated to 211BC, so hardly "currency" in the true sense of the word (ie current!)Hmmm, richly decorated helmet accompanied by a small fortune. Makes you wonder who this bloke really was.
hock: