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+--- Thread: Roman army public speaking (/showthread.php?tid=21466)
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Roman army public speaking - markhebb - 01-24-2013
Quote:markhebb post=328851 Wrote:my thesis is on ways the emperor maintained the loyalty of the army 235-395 - so I cover a whole range of topics.
Sounds interesting - you don't have anything about raising emperors on shields do you, by any chance?
;-)
Nathan - not a whole lot on the Schilderhebung. As far as I know Julian was the first. In my section on imperial accession - well the bit I call the 'acclamatio process' I discuss it a little. My view on this is that it wasn't a 'barbarian' innovation in the same way as the barritus was. Instead it was an improvisation by Julian's troops - they were attempting to mimic the 'proper' Constantinian acclamatio process whereby the emperor had to receive the acclamatio of the troops from a raised dais as well as undergo a ceremonial process whereby he received the imperial insignia - most prominently a paludamentum.....Not everyone will agree with me but I think it makes sense- troops loyal to the House by this time had it drilled into them that the ceremonial aspects of accession were necessary for the emperor to be legitimate. Thus they wanted the spectacle in whatever form so tehy could say their boy was indeed legitimate...
Roman army public speaking - Robert Vermaat - 01-24-2013
Quote:Nathan - not a whole lot on the Schilderhebung. As far as I know Julian was the first. In my section on imperial accession - well the bit I call the 'acclamatio process' I discuss it a little. My view on this is that it wasn't a 'barbarian' innovation in the same way as the barritus was. Instead it was an improvisation by Julian's troops - they were attempting to mimic the 'proper' Constantinian acclamatio process whereby the emperor had to receive the acclamatio of the troops from a raised dais as well as undergo a ceremonial process whereby he received the imperial insignia - most prominently a paludamentum.....Not everyone will agree with me but I think it makes sense- troops loyal to the House by this time had it drilled into them that the ceremonial aspects of accession were necessary for the emperor to be legitimate. Thus they wanted the spectacle in whatever form so tehy could say their boy was indeed legitimate...I can agree with that. It's because of the modern German name that most people think of a Germanic influence, but for all we know this may have been a proper Roman presentation of a new Emperor to his troops in the field (it may even have been a Roman custom spreading to Germanic military culture in an attempt to ape Roman styles).
IF it was first improvised by Julian's troops (and I don't see a particular need for that) it ceratinly was not something invented by a group of Germanic soldiers in Roman service - no evidence points to that fact, anyway.
Roman army public speaking - inkstain - 02-01-2013
Dear Markhebb,
On Vetranio and the diadem, we've got Gibbon describing the gift at the hands of Constantia and its return from Vetranio to Constantius on Christmas Day 350, as well as Philostorgius, Cambridge Ancient and Medieval Histories. A Gibbon footnote does introduce the confusion over when and where Vetranio and Constantius first met, and then after the Big Speech from Constantius, a cowed Vetranio 'removed the diadem from his head' and capitulated. Gibbon explains that some primary sources say the two forces started in Naissus then ended up in Sardica, others that they just met in Sardica, (Zonaras, Jerome, Socrates, and Zozomen cited.)
Best wishes,
Roman army public speaking - markhebb - 02-02-2013
Quote:Dear Markhebb,
On Vetranio and the diadem, we've got Gibbon describing the gift at the hands of Constantia and its return from Vetranio to Constantius on Christmas Day 350, as well as Philostorgius, Cambridge Ancient and Medieval Histories. A Gibbon footnote does introduce the confusion over when and where Vetranio and Constantius first met, and then after the Big Speech from Constantius, a cowed Vetranio 'removed the diadem from his head' and capitulated. Gibbon explains that some primary sources say the two forces started in Naissus then ended up in Sardica, others that they just met in Sardica, (Zonaras, Jerome, Socrates, and Zozomen cited.)
Best wishes,
ahh...philostorgius was what I was looking for...cheers