Hi Caius!<br>
I hope this finds you well! I am assuming you are referring to the pictures of Stilicho and the Egyptian wood carving? If so, I found both images in Osprey's "Late Roman Infantryman" by Simon MacDowall and Gerry Embleton. I believe the Egyptian carving now resides in a museum in Berlin. I hope this will help you. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luciusaureliusmetellus@romanarmytalk>Lucius Aurelius Metellus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/Lucius.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 10/11/04 7:44 pm<br></i>
Yes, but if I recall well, it is added that the relief was destroyed during Seond World War!<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
On the subject of that Egyptian wood carving - I found this recently: a 6th century ivory box from Alexandria, now in the British Museum:<br>
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<img src="http://www.stmina-monastery.org/images/Pyxis1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
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...which shows another of those 'V Macedonia' shield designs - whatever they were, they must have been common in Egypt at that point (unless this, the wood carving and the other ivory tablet all come from the same place, I suppose!) <p></p><i></i>
Wow Nathan! That's beautiful! That legion sure had a lot of representation in art didn't it? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>
Avete omnes,<br>
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I have two questions when I see the picture above and the text about it. Is it sure that this is the emblem of legio V Macedonica? And if it is so - I don't know if this has been mentioned here already - is the shield painting a reference to the old heraldic emblem of Phillipp's and Alexander's Macedonia? A sun that had been depicted with different numbers of sunbeams?<br>
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[url=http://savvas.aeiforos.net/images/photos/various/asteri.jpg" target="top]savvas.aeiforos.net/images/photos/various/asteri.jpg[/url]<br>
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[url=http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/sun.jpg" target="top]www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/sun.jpg[/url]<br>
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Uwe <p></p><i></i>
I remember having seen such sun symbols in the center of the Macedonian shields on the Aemilius Paullus memorial at Delphi, too. <p></p><i></i>
Ooops, I have sent the last reply too early.<br>
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I made quite a lot of close up images of the Aemilius Paullus frieze at Delphi a few weeks ago. The Macedonian shields all show some kind of star/sun in their center, which is usually interpreted as the Macedonian sun symbol.<br>
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(and the shields are round and dished...<br>
...although they would have been of brass, not wood, or... ?)<br>
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I cannot post these images myself, but if someone gives me an email address, I can pass them on. <p></p><i></i>
<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/bodego.JPG" style="border:0;"/><br>
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<img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/atac.JPG" style="border:0;"/><br>
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Here is my cavalry flat one. <p></p><i></i>
As for the discussion of the tunic color: couldn't all the types or kinds have been possible at the same time? Being that each miles would have his own tunic no matter the colour it was? Though all colors could have been possible, and so with the late scuta shapes: round, oval, flat and dished. <p></p><i></i>
That certainly seems to have been the case during the early empire, with no apparent standardisation of shield shapes (to judge from grave stelae) and no clear references to any one colour being preferred over others for tunics, despite what some might try to claim. Cloak colour may have been more significant, throughout the life of the empire and far beyond. For late Imperial shield shapes I doubt that that there was the strict standardisation which we expect in products today but I do wonder whether there was significance in whether the shield was flat or dished. As I said above, there does not seem to have been any obvious standardisation of exact shield shapes during the early Empire (or probably late Republic) but there does seem to have been significance in whether the shied was curved or flat. Food for thought?<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
In my opinion, late Roman shields (and I mean by that from fourth century onwards) were all round and, even if it is possible that some of them were still oval, you can positively bet that none of them were flat...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>and, even if it is possible that some of them were still oval<hr><br>
<p></p><i></i>
And what about the germanic shields? Were they flat or dished?<br>
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Hi Faventianus,<br>
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I'm not aware of any 4th-c. remains of Germanic shields, so I couldn't tell.<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
I think (although I am quite prepared to be shot down over this) that at least two flat shields of rectangular shape with rounded corners and with wooden barleycorn bosses were found at Nydam. Also, although outside the Roman period, flat round planked shields had a long history in Scandanavia (which is generally considered to have been culturally Germanic), appearing in the Gokstadt ship burial and (I think) the Gjermundbu(?spelling) burial. Whilst the Scandanavian examples might not be considered relavant they do at least show a Germanic culture which had knowledge of late Roman equipment (the Sutton Hoo helmet, for example) and which also used flat shields. As a footnote, for nearly seven years I fought using a flat 30 inch round shield and rarely had problems protecting myself with it. It needed to be moved around more to give as much protection as a dished shield would, but after several years of practice this movement became almost instinctive.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>