Massive gathering in Germania in 2009

[Robert Vermaat]

I have a short list based on a 'year -9' from Late Roman history:

259 – Wiesbaden captured by the Alamanni
269 - Ulpius Cornelius Laelianus rebels against Postumus and takes Mogontiacum (Mainz), but is defeated. After refusing them to sack the city, Postumus is murdered by his troops, who elevate Marcus Aurelius Marius to the throne. After two days Marcus Piavvonius Victorinus is proclaimed at Augusta Treverorum (Trier) and kills Marius.
309 - Constantine campaigns against the Bructeri, builds a bridge at Colonia (Cologne).

My personal preference would be 269.

[Tib. Gabinius]

very well, thank you

[Tarbicus]

2nd Battle of Cremona/Bedriacum, AD 69.
1st C Romans against Romans, the pivotal point for the start of the Flavian dynasty.

[Tib. Gabinius]

Thats in Italy Tarbicus, not Germany

[Tarbicus]

I know, but it's my favourite battle and I thought I'd give it a try. I'm guaranteed to be under a grave stele by 2069 :wink:

[Tib. Gabinius]

Trust in modern medicin
But i cant make any contacts to italy anway, sorry

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

But... Let me understand...

1. Is this Roman Army Talk, or not?

2. Therefore are we less or more all fans of the Romans, or not?

3. Is an event a feast, a gathering, a vacation, a festival, a celebration, all of those, or what?

4. Tobias proposed a big event to do in 2009. Ok. But is the "9" forced concurrence a must to give to such an event an appropriate justification to get the necessary attention (and money) from the sponsors, and so, a condicio sine qua non?

In my opinion, a big, "universal" event has to be done for a happy reason, i.e., a victory. If not no other justification but the "triumphal" gathering of all the roman reenactors, as cultural event of popularization of the roman army equipment, and memory of all the roman soldiers of the roman empire. I think that celebrating a defeat, or any other bad page of the roman history, just for the "9" concurrence is really unappropriate.

Tobias, please, organize the best event ever, we all will come, with all our stuff, but for a happy, honorable and joyful reason...

Valete,

[Robert Vermaat]

Tobias, please, organize the best event ever, we all will come, with all our stuff, but for a happy, honorable and joyful reason...

Hi Daniele,

Actually, this whole organisation was set up to do something in Germany in 2009, mainly because of the Kalkriese event.
What say you we do the fall of Rome in 2010?

[Tarbicus]

In my opinion, a big, "universal" event has to be done for a happy reason, i.e., a victory.... just for the "9" concurrence is really unappropriate.

I disagree Daniele. We're not here to ignore history, and given that AD 9 was one of the most important years in Roman military history it makes sense that we should give it much regard and importance.

Also, as the event's in Germany, and the victor was a German national hero, there will be plenty of scope for celebration :wink: And all that said, what's to celebrate over a Roman victory given the mass slaughter and enslavement that often went with it?

Have you not considered we'd be there to also commemorate the Romans?

[Caballo]

Well - as the Batavians we fought both with and against the Romans in our time......... .

But I actually think that the 2,000 anniversary of a major, Europe-changing battle is an opportunity not to be missed and to honour those legions and auxilia.

It is also a well known battle to the public, and should attract big crowds...hence easier sponsorship etc etc

Plus they have experience in delivering a major re-enactment event.

Defeat or victory, Kalkriese '09 is a unique opportunity to get the biggest European gathering of Romans ever- so my vote is for Kalkriese.

Cheers

Caballo

[Marcus Mummius]

I also prefer Kalkriese 2009. I do not think it's bad to commemorate the Roman that fell there...

Kind regards,
Jef

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

I don't like, but, Ok...
Assumed Kalkriese and a mass attendance by roman reenactors, how could we commemorate the killed Romans at the event? A full of dignity ceremony apart? And what about the feeling of the german public toward us?

About the "the mass slaughter and enslavement that often went with it", I can say: "it's just the History, baby" ! :wink:

Valete,

[Iosephus]

I would go for Kalkriese too.

Imagine that with hundreds of legionaires and germanic warriors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2MjmIVK ... ed&search=



about commemorating the fallen:
if there were no objection against the reenactment of the battle of Jena -note the 30.000 casualties - then I see no reason against reenacting Varusschlacht.

[Ulfwin]

Dear Roman milites!

I'm authorized to speak for a number of living history groups from southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland, all of them alamanni. (The Ulfinger - www.ulfinger.de - the ASK - www.ask-alamannen.de , the Ulfhednar Austria - www.alamannen.org , the Raetovarier - www.raetovarier.de , the Gulimborsti, some smaller groups and single alamanni.

We are preparing for a great event 2009, hopefully in Kalkriese. Three years ago I was there as a barbarian (what's correct: teutonic? germanic?) horseman, together with my horse-runner Folkmar. Out of the big pool of the above mentioned we want to build up a accurate early 1st century group, working together with other groups displaying that time. We have developed a concept of introducing the audience/visitors to the most important scenes of the Varus/Arminius-Story, with a safe but great battle as climax. Of course this is only possible with good willing cooperation of Romani and Barbari.
I would be very happy, if some of you were interested in working together with us.
From the Barbarian side it is very important, to bring many groups to cooperation, because the problem is not at all the number of willing groups, but the quality. Almost every group, be it teutonic or celtic or just ren-fair-having-fun people are talking about going to Kalriese 2009. It will be the same with a lot of vikings, to whom I have no contact due to geographic reasons. If there is no greater plan, no organization setting levels, there will be a disastrous chaos. There must be someone, who can officially claim the big battle and tell all those who dream of "going to Kalkriese and hit romans", that they can only take part, if they accept kitguide and rules. If not, the event may open Pandora's box. You see? If there is no one who throws the big bone in the right direction, then there will be a ungood number of howling dogs which will inevitably spoil everyone's good work.
Unfortunately the Museum Kalkriese does not yet understand the urge of these preparations. They think of a nice living history display in 2007 and don't make too much thoughts about the big 2009 date. The Chasuari and we southerners are in touch with the Museum, but it is a slow thing to convince them that something must happen.

If from your side there is a serious will to do any great varrian performance, I would be very happy to cooperate with you as the man for the barbarian party. Please get in touch with me!

Besides all my sorrows concerning the varrian event, it will provide a fine number of 1st century teutons, and the following years are full of interesting dates thinking of the wars of Germanicus.

Thanks for reading,

Stefan

[Robert Vermaat]

I'm authorized to speak for a number of living history groups from southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland, all of them alamanni. (The Ulfinger - www.ulfinger.de - the ASK - www.ask-alamannen.de , the Ulfhednar Austria - www.alamannen.org , the Raetovarier - www.raetovarier.de , the Gulimborsti, some smaller groups and single alamanni.

We could do a great Late Roman event together!