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Trousers
#1
Is there a recent overview of evidence for trousers between the Rhine and the Oder up to the first century CE?  There are Marx-Etzel man's braccae and tunica (very Roman looking!) from the first century CE, and the Gundestrup Cauldron (but we don't know what regional fashions it depicts or when it was made) and all the Roman imperial art which probably shows generic barbarians.

Karl Schlabow's book is getting kind of old and the new research by scholars in Denmark focusses on issues like dye, chronology, and decayed organic fibres (Huldremose woman wore a hemp, linen, or nettle tunic!) https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._revisited There is also a trend in research to see material culture in barbaricum as 'imitation Roman' whereas earlier research tended to see it as part of a timeless indigenous tradition. Edit: I liked the paper by Anne Kwaspen and Antoine De Moor on trousers in the Imperial Roman world, but it focuses on finds from 200-1000 CE.

Schlabow, Karl. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumunster, 1976

Edit: looks like the last time I asked this was in 2011
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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#2
(12-07-2023, 06:22 PM)Sean Manning Wrote: Is there a recent overview of evidence for trousers between the Rhine and the Oder up to the first century CE?  There are Marx-Etzel man's braccae and tunica (very Roman looking!) from the first century CE, and the Gundestrup Cauldron (but we don't know what regional fashions it depicts or when it was made) and all the Roman imperial art which probably shows generic barbarians.

Karl Schablow's book is getting kind of old and the new research by scholars in Denmark focusses on issues like dye, chronology, and decayed organic fibres (Huldremose woman wore a hemp, linen, or nettle tunic!) https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._revisited  There is also a trend in research to see material culture in barbaricum as 'imitation Roman' whereas earlier research tended to see it as part of a timeless indigenous tradition.  Edit: I liked the paper by Anne Kwaspen and Antoine De Moor on trousers in the Imperial Roman world, but it focuses on finds from 200-1000 CE.

Schlabow, Karl. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumunster, 1976

Edit: looks like the last time I asked this was in 2011

Thanks for posting the link to the "Die Moorleichenreste im Provinzial-Museum zu Hannover." I've tried to find this a while ago but was unable to find it or identify the exact publication... very interesting.

The text on page 9 translates as:

"The bog body of Marx-Etzel drew attention to bog bodies for the first time, and has since been the subject of much literature, especially because of the strikingly well-decorated right shoe.
The Provinzialmuseum in Hanover has the following finds from the Marx-Etzel bog body:
1) A sleeveless torso dress.
2. a pair of breeches (broken).
3, Remains of a lined garment (jacket ?). 
4, a right shoe."

Now if this is the case and the Braccae came from the same body as the shoe then the date would according to two recent sources be around 300AD or at least the 3rd or 4th century, rather then the 1st...

Sources:
M.Volkens "Archeological Footware"  and Julia Gräfs "Lederfund der Vorrömischen Eisenzeit" 2015
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#3
A maker with a blog mentioned the publication but did not provide the link or citation so I tracked it down. I just realized that I can't prove that Germanic people wore trousers before the second century CE! Maybe someone with the books by Hald or Schlabow could.

European colleagues have been doing a lot of work with carbon dating and dye analysis of bog finds but I didn't know the shoe had been covered by Volken and Gräfs.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#4
(12-11-2023, 10:55 PM)Sean Manning Wrote: A maker with a blog mentioned the publication but did not provide the link or citation so I tracked it down.  I just realized that I can't prove that Germanic people wore trousers before the second century CE!  Maybe someone with the books by Hald or Schlabow could.

European colleagues have been doing a lot of work with carbon dating and dye analysis of bog finds but I didn't know the shoe had been covered by Volken and Gräfs.

I do have a poor copy of Schlabow...
There are 6 braccae in total, 3 long and 3 short... but no attempt at dates I can see, its rather a catalogue with details.
5 pages give basic details of the finds plus the illustrations... so not very much...

I can't think of anything in Hald?

There is "War and Worship" Susan Möller-Wiering2011 Ancient textile series , Oxbow books.
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#5
My impression (and I could be wrong) is that War and Worship focuses on the second half of the Roman Iron Age from 200 to 500 CE after a second major shift in material culture (there was an earlier shift when the Romans arrived on the Rhine and the Danube and started sending armies and traders across). Does it have anything on earlier trousers?

The Gundestrup cauldron shows short, close-fitting tunics with long sleeves and short trousers.

If I had time and resources to borrow 20 or so books and articles I could probably work something out but this is too far from my main projects to put in that kind of work. Maybe when I have read the books which I currently have on interlibrary loan.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#6
(12-12-2023, 01:20 AM)Sean Manning Wrote: My impression (and I could be wrong) is that War and Worship focuses on the second half of the Roman Iron Age from 200 to 500 CE after a second major shift in material culture (there was an earlier shift when the Romans arrived on the Rhine and the Danube and started sending armies and traders across). Does it have anything on earlier trousers?

The Gundestrup cauldron shows short, close-fitting tunics with long sleeves and short trousers.

If I had time and resources to borrow 20 or so books and articles I could probably work something out but this is too far from my main projects to put in that kind of work.  Maybe when I have read the books which I currently have on interlibrary loan.

Hald only talks about the same group of Braccae as Schlabow, as she says there are none from Denmark...

War and Worship deals with the same things...

The Gudestrup Cauldron is described as most likely Eastern European manufacture and style probarbly from around the 2nd century BC in "Celtic Art" Ruth and Vincent Megaw pg 176. 1989 Thames and Hudson.
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#7
Tacitus Germania Chapter 17

"They all wrap themselves in a cloak which is fastened with a clasp, or, if this is not forthcoming, with a thorn, leaving the rest of their persons bare. They pass whole days on the hearth by the fire. The wealthiest are distinguished by a dress which is not flowing, like that of the Sarmatæ and Parthi, but is tight, and exhibits each limb. They also wear the skins of wild beasts; the tribes on the Rhine and Danube in a careless fashion, those of the interior with more elegance, as not obtaining other clothing by commerce. These select certain animals, the hides of which they strip off and vary them with the spotted skins of beasts, the produce of the outer ocean, and of seas unknown to us. The women have the same dress as the men, except that they generally wrap themselves in linen garments, which they embroider with purple, and do not lengthen out the upper part of their clothing into sleeves. The upper and lower arm is thus bare, and the nearest part of the bosom is also exposed."

I've always found this interesting if for no other reason then it seems to reflect bronze age northern european male fashion to some extent, and that there is little other then large pieces of cloth surviving, it seems.

Once upon a time when I was a reinactor and based on this description I tried it out, wrapping myself in a large oblong piece of 2/2 twill that I had and fastening it over the left shoulder leaving the right bear, fastening it round the waist and some carbatinas... and nothing else.

For a few days thats all I wore and taking part in many combats using only spears and javalins and a small oval shield, it worked out fine...

Two or more layers worn as a "cloak" works well for the cold and rain.
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#8
Edit: its a very good point that Tacitus doesn't seem to think that all German men wear trousers, just wealthy German men

Anyways, maybe next year I can borrow "War and Worship", Schlabow's book, and Hald's book to write an article on the three types of early Eurasian trousers. But since I'm not a specialist in barbarian Europe its hard to have an opinion on debates like who made the Gundestrup cauldron where for whom. It does seem like most of the early Iron Age textiles from bogs are woven to shape and then in the Roman Iron Age we have garments like the Lendbreen Tunic https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00049462 and Thorsberg trousers and Tacitus' statement that wealthy Germans wear clothes which are fit closely to their bodies and are different from Parthian clothing. So at some point no later than Tacitus people in the north started cutting and sewing cloth garments to shape.

There may be some evidence and analysis in Svetlana V. Pankova and St John Simpson (eds.), Masters of the Steppe: The Impact of the Scythians and Later Nomad Societies of Eurasia: Proceedings of a conference held at the British Museum, 27-29 October 2017. I think they focus on the Eurasian steppes and Iran but one of the articles might have some general comments.

I will try pulling in a rectangular cloak with a waist belt sometime.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply
#9
(12-12-2023, 10:33 PM)Sean Manning Wrote: Edit: its a very good point that Tacitus doesn't seem to think that all German men wear trousers, just wealthy German men

Anyways, maybe next year I can borrow "War and Worship", Schlabow's book, and Hald's book to write an article on the three types of early Eurasian trousers.  But since I'm not a specialist in barbarian Europe its hard to have an opinion on debates like who made the Gundestrup cauldron where for whom.  It does seem like most of the early Iron Age textiles from bogs are woven to shape and then in the Roman Iron Age we have garments like the Lendbreen Tunic https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00049462 and Thorsberg trousers and Tacitus' statement that wealthy Germans wear clothes which are fit closely to their bodies and are different from Parthian clothing.  So at some point no later than Tacitus people in the north started cutting and sewing cloth garments to shape.

There may be some evidence and analysis in Svetlana V. Pankova and St John Simpson (eds.), Masters of the Steppe: The Impact of the Scythians and Later Nomad Societies of Eurasia: Proceedings of a conference held at the British Museum, 27-29 October 2017.  I think they focus on the Eurasian steppes and Iran but one of the articles might have some general comments.

I will try pulling in a rectangular cloak with a waist belt sometime.

Some Sources... English text.

From Acadamia:

From: "Masters of the Steppe"
"Textile finds from the central burials of the Arzhan-1 barrow in Tuva" Has two pairs of trousers from Tarim basin graves.

"Reconstructing the Tunic from Lendbreen in Norway

"Out of the Norwegian glaciers" more accessible.

The "Margrethe Hald Archive" has:

"Costumes of the Bronze Age" there are several wrap around textiles for men usually held at the shoulders, and some interesting female T-shirts...

"Ancient danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials"

As well as many other interesting titles...

Anything I could say on Trousers would likely be pure speculation, but it seems to me that the Northern Europeans didn't just invent them and that the idea filtered through from the east some time Bettween the Bronze age and the Roman era...

In any case it would be very interesting to find out when Trousers started to appear in northern europe...
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#10
Wow, somehow I missed that the Margrethe Hald Archive had digitized all of her research publications!

The article by Svetlana V. Pankova has some more examples of seams where first the edges are finished, then they are butted together and joined with an overcast stitch / Überwendlichstich. That technique comes up a lot in sewing before sewing machines.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply


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