Resources for Iron Age trousers

[Sean Manning]

What are some good references on archaeological finds of clothing in the parts of Iron Age Europe that fitted clothing and wore trousers? I'm musing about how Median clothing was made, and the most relevant find available in English is the ones frozen at Pazyryk. Rudenko didn't describe a very complete range of clothing. Nobody seems to have published anything detailed about the Salt Men in Iran, although I suspect there are some good resources if I could read Persian!

There is lots of information available about late medieval clothing, but that's close to 2000 years later.

[jkaler48]

I think that most ancient European trousers/fabrics found are peat bog finds so you you should do a net search on that.

[Sean Manning]

I know there are a lot of Bronze Age bog and waterlogged grave finds from Europe, but I had forgotten about the Iron Age bog men. I will look them up, but does anyone else have advice? All those Celtic and Germanic reenactors must get clothing designs from somewhere.

Rudenko cites some things in Russian which might have useful pictures.

Edit: This New Varangian Guard article gives a catalogue of clothing finds but not a list of publications.

[Crispianus]

Greetings,I would recommend "Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutchland" Karl Schlabow 1976, text in German but worth it for the illusrations and catalogue alone... you may also look for books by Margerethe Hald

[Sean Manning]

Thanks Crispanus (and jkaller, since reading my last post I see I forgot to say that!) Ich lege ein klein paar Deutsch.

[M. Demetrius]

Does this count?
http://historiclife.com/Essays/ThorsbergTrousers.htm

[Joze Noriker]

Hy - i yust not understand why did you wrote the topic "Iron Age trousers" and you have interes about European trousers-items, but you started your topic with Scythian&Persian items.
Indeed, some Lt A reenactors wear the Scythian's trousers, but mostly of Eu-celtic-reenactors dont have a Scythian's trousers. Yes, the K. Shlabow is main book but it is in many items uncorrect because the book is old and today the archaeologists knows new theories. You can look of the NESAT conference proceedings, too - the series of books contains many autors and new theories. Tolund-man, Marx- Etzel trousers, Thorsberg trousers I and II are the main evidences but the belt buckle from Molnik, Slovenia or scabard from Hallstatt grawe nr. 994 are f.x. the visual evidences about the IA trousers by the Celts of the iron age Europe. They all are not shaped like the Scythian's trousers.
Joze

[Sean Manning]

Hi Joze,

As far as I know, large pieces of cloth only survive 2000 years in special conditions which are common in northern Europe and north Africa but not in most parts of the Achaemenid empire. So far I only know of two exceptions: the frozen finds at Pazyryk published by Rudenko (which are already a long way aways from the empire, even though the finds have Iranian influence), and the salted finds at Zanjan which don't seem to have been published at all. So I'm pretty sure that no actual examples of Median dress survive, so to guess how they might have been put together I have to use comparisons and pictures.

Other Indo-European cultures roughly contemporary with the Achaemenids seem like a good source of comparative evidence. For example, I don't know whether the Median legwear was hose like in medieval Europe, or trousers like some of these Iron Age finds (I haven't seen any clear photo or sketch of the figures carrying leggings at Persepolis). All I can tell clearly is that they have feet and fit tightly. But if most other contemporary I-E peoples were using trousers not hose, the Persians probably were too.

I should actually check if there are any other finds from the Stans, Russia, or Xinjang, but I guessed that a forum of Greek and Roman enthusiasts might know more about the European evidence!

[Joze Noriker]

Yes - but you wrote the question where the Eu-Celtic reenactors are getting the evidences for their throusers and i worte you the answer. Be sure that not in the culture-tradition that you are writting about them.
I know one trousers item from Siberia and i have foto of them, too and the orig. item were not publisheed, too. But again: the Eu-continental trousers' shapes of the iron age are highly different of them.
I wrote you the point.

Joze

[Sean Manning]

Dear Joze,

Now that I have found where to find some of the European evidence, I will be able to decide whether or not its useful! But I can't know whether its useful until I actually look at it. Thanks for your thoughts and references.

[Crispianus]

The book I was specifically thinking off from M.Hald is this one unfortunatly its difficult to find now..

Hald, M. 1980. Ancient Danish textiles from bogs and burials: a comparative study of costume and Iron Age textiles. National Museum of Denmark. (English text J.Olsen)

Probarbly best to try for a copy through a library

[Sean Manning]

Thank you. Those Danes seem to have a thing for excavating prehistoric textiles; aside from these and the Norse textiles from Greenland, I think they have some Bronze Age textiles from oak coffins in bogs.

[Crispianus]

That would be Oak coffins buried in mounds and Bog bodys, for a general read and overview you should be able to get "The Mound People" and " The Bog People" by P.V Glob (english text) for little money.. :wink:

[Joze Noriker]

Dear Joze,

Now that I have found where to find some of the European evidence, I will be able to decide whether or not its useful! But I can't know whether its useful until I actually look at it. Thanks for your thoughts and references.

I told you that here in Europe are not many celtic reenactors with scythian throusers (only in Lt I = Lt a periode are some of them); most of them have the Marx-Etzel or Thorsberg I and II throusers but some of them have fantasy-items, too.
The Shlabow i have on pdf, too but some other good books i saw and i read them and i took many many fotos of their items in Germany in a book-collection of the Marled when i was on 2 festivals in Saarland. She is well known textile reconstructionist working for some museums (Belginum, Völklingen etc...) and has many books of the prehistoric textiles. Her house is full of the books and textiles/handcrafts items.
The fotos of unpublisheed scyhtian's throusers i saw when i was in y. 2009 on the meeting of the members of german's reconstructionists's forum archaeoforum.de - the owner of this forum Veronika/Ferro was 2 x in Siberia and she finisheed the study of Archaeology in Munich exactly with theme Scythian's dress. But i have some books of the Scythians (Rudenko S.)i ordered them from Germany and i made fotokopies and fotos of all items of them, too (for my private use). I saw the exhibitions of the Scythians in Munich/Germany and in Leoben/Austria, too and have booth cataloges.
Joze