Lorica Segmentata and auxiliaries

[mcbishop]

does anybody have a picture of the Arlon cavalryman? I have read about it on this forum before, but never seen it.

Here they are (in the Musée Luxembourgeois). There are apparently two Arlons, one in Belgium one in Luxembourg... I had it explained to me once but I was left with a gentle numbing confusion resembling Zaphod Beeblebrox's explaining the accident with a contrceptive in a time machine...

The relief is discussed on pp.72-3 of Lorica Segmentata I (and Michael Simkins' speculative reconstruction of it is on p.74).

Mike Bishop

[Martin Wallgren]

cool...

Though I don´t agree with the interpretation the artist has done.

[Alexandr K]

Thank you Mike

[Graham Sumner]

Though I don´t agree with the interpretation the artist has done.

The Roman artist, the modern artist or both!

Artists eh, they always get the blame

Graham.

[Martin Wallgren]

Hehe.. sorry... I mean the artist contemporary with ourselves.

Well yepp I know being somekind of hobbyartist myself.

[Tarbicus]

The cavalryman to the extreme right has four strips, which to my eye means that would be two split hamata strips on the doubling between the two leather edgings.

To be honest, the sculpture looks like a poorly done provincial mimic of more traditional and better executed propoganda seg representations as seen in the Columns of Trajan and MA, etc.

[Graham Sumner]

There are better pictures out there Jim. Apart from the shoulder area being unclear the sculptor has done a pretty good job.

Slightly off topic but also of interest is whether the men are wearing long sleeved tunics with turned back cuffs or very fine and short almost invisible tunics with armillae.

Any thoughts Mike?

Graham.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

has anyone of you thought of the idea of hastily put on equipment ?

like only a tunic and the upper part of a segmentata.........

or is that a silly idea........?

M.VIB.M.

[mcbishop]

Slightly off topic but also of interest is whether the men are wearing long sleeved tunics with turned back cuffs or very fine and short almost invisible tunics with armillae.

Any thoughts Mike?

I seldom admit to actual thoughts: they just get in the way of good clean prejudice :-)

So far as I can tell most cavalry reliefs that have these cuffs/armbands etc are supposed to be depicting long-sleeved tunics (the finer ones actually depict stitching on the sleeve) but (just as with that dog's breakfast of the helical frieze on Trajan's Column) I'm not sure all sculptors necessarily understood what they were seeing or even that they were always working from primary sources. What was supposed to be a cuff could easily end up as an armlet if you were a bit confused or unfamiliar with your subject.

This cavalry relief is one of a series that were studied by Gabelmann:

Gabelmann, H. 1973: 'Römische Grabmonumente mit Reiterkampfszenen in Rheingebiet', Bonner Jahrbücher 173, 132-200

and a close link with the well-known Rhineland cavalry tombstones is explored there.

I see no reason to doubt that they are meant to be cuffs. I wish I could even begin to believe those are supposed to be segmental shoulderguards, but I don't in all honesty.

Mike Bishop

[bisdent]

There are apparently two Arlons, one in Belgium one in Luxembourg... Mike Bishop

No, there is only one Arlon in Belgium.

But you must know that Belgium is divided into 10 provinces and the Province of Luxembourg is one of them. The province of Luxembourg has a common border with the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, France, and the Belgian Provinces of Namur and Liège. Arlon is the chief town of the Belgian Province of Luxembourg.

[Peroni]

There is also the find from Delwijnen Eendenkade of a set of Corbridge type segmentata that was found alongside horse gear and a discharge diploma of a Batavian that had returned from Britain. Apparently the armour was complete when deposited as all the cupric alloy fittings were present. According to Dr. Johan Nicolay of the Amsterdam University.

I have the papers at work on my PC there and will post the references tomorrow!

[Magnus]

Oh no! What if segmentatas were actually cavalry armour!!! We'll all have to build those horse heads on poles that kids used to run around with between their legs.

[sulla felix]

Oh no! What if segmentatas were actually cavalry armour!!! We'll all have to build those horse heads on poles that kids used to run around with between their legs.

It worked for Monty Python :lol: Not sure where Romans would get the coconut shells from though :lol:

[Peroni]

Here's the references..

It's taken from an article recently published in our Society's newsletter..

One particular find site is at Delwijnen-Eendenkade, where, in addition to a diploma fragment from Britannia (RMD-03, 00151), sixty items of military equipment were found. The military equipment included twenty-two cupric alloy components from segmented plate armour, and two fragments of iron plate, one with a hinged buckle attached, mostly of the Corbridge type cuirass which Dr. Johan Nicolay suggests had probably been fully intact at the time of deposition. The date given on the diploma (AD98 – 117, probably ante AD114) would fit perfectly with a Corbridge type cuirass suggesting that the soldier – (a Batavian auxiliary soldier from the information on the diploma), deposited this armour and equipment on his safe return home. This combined evidence would strongly suggest that the cuirass belonged to the Batavian soldier.

Another diploma fragment found at Elst-Lijnden was issued on the 20th February 98AD. (RMD-04 00216) This diploma was issued to a certain ‘Gaveri(us)’ - a Batavian trooper of ala I Batavorvm. If, as the discharge diploma suggests, he fulfilled his 25 years service it means that he joined the army in 73, shortly after Vespasian re-constituted the five Batavian ‘one-thousand strong’ milliaria units. He must have been one of the first Batavians after the revolt to attain a Roman citizenship diploma. The associated finds of segmented armour seem very unusual for a cavalryman to have in his possession, (unless it was armour of the type depicted on a cavalryman at Arlon wherein the rider is wearing what appears to be a mail/plate hybrid cuirass with shoulder sections of segmented plate) leaving us with three possible and plausible reasons for it being in his possession;

a) It was a war trophy or ‘spoila’
b) It belonged to and was worn by him and was deposited as a votive offering to his gods upon retirement and his return home
c) It belonged to a son who, now being a Roman citizen, joined the legions and it was deposited by him at a later date.

[sulla felix]

Interesting - my Corbridge A might not be redundant then?