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Books on Gladiators
#46
Dear Conal, I received the book “Das Speil mit dem Todâ€
Michael
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#47
Quote:The Pseudoaltisch helmet sketch on page 50 and the Weisenau-Niedermormter + the Niederbieber helmet sketches had no photographs of them in the book, why? Is there a photograph of the Psuedoaltisch helmet somewhere on the web?

I think mainly because this are helmet which are taken direct from the army. You can see pictures of most of these types in het RAT helmet database on the main site.

Quote: And did Junklemann make any remarks about this Pseudoaltisch helmet? Plus, why didn’t the photograph of the helmet on page 52 appear as a sketch in the timeline chart on pages 50-51?

First in English attisch (german) is translated to attic. So I'll call it a pseudoattic helmet. The reason the helmet isn't show in the timeline, i think, is this (quote from the text under the picture)

Quote:Southitalien helmet of the Chalkidic-Attic-Phrygian-mixture type


It's a mixture of different helmet types and traditions.


Quote:Since the early Keltisch-Italische gladiator helmets looked like regular army infantry helmets, did the author say any special remarks about them as to why the romans didnt give them more of a specialized gladiator look like the Griechisch-Hellenistische helmets during that same early time period?

Because the gladiators are derived directly from normal soldiers, and afterwards got their own look. It was a way to show the martial power of Rome.


Quote:I’m surprised a statuette like the one that appears on page 13 of the Osprey gladiator book didn’t appear in the Junklemann book. I’ll upload a picture of this statuette here so that you know what I'm referring to.

So what? Why should every picture or statue showing a gladiator be in every book. I don't see why this statue should be in the book, and there are enough others shown in the book, anyway.


michiann\\n[quote]Finally, in the film “Fabiolaâ€
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#48
Junkelmann describes the development of the different galdiatorial helmets in great detail.
It seems that the helmets of the Murmillo, Thraex and Hoplomachus as well as the Eques developed from the Boetian tradition, while the helmets of the Provocator and Essedarius developed from the Gallic/Itallic tradition.

This is why the early Provocators and Essedarii are wearing Gallic A and Colus type helmets while the other Gladiators are already wearing elaborat gladiatorial helmets.
Still all early helmets are open faced and only have cheekguards.
The cheekguards are then broadend through time untill they cover the whole face.
Looking at the Provocator you can clearly see the ancentry of the millitary Gallic A helmet.

The helmet in the picture from osprey looks like a helmet of type Berlin as Junkelmann calls it.
These helmets were an even later development, bringing the broad rim of the early Murmillo and Thraex helmets down to the schoulders and having a distinct rim around the split grates of the visor, focusing the view to the front.
The only surviving example of such a helmet is the Murmillo in the Pergamon Museum Berlin, though several visor grates have been found elsewere.
[url:1h3ih70v]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/2005-12-28_Berlin_Pergamon_museum_Gladiator_helmet.jpg[/url]
The drawings you provide look like a mixture of different styles from finds and iconography.
The pierced visor seems to be late development, and the winged serpent seems to be reminiscent of the Griffinhead that marks a helmet as a Thraex.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
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#49
Jvrgenius, That was a good observation by you that the Fabiola helmet seems like a mix of the Chieti G + Berlin G. //// In regards to the statuette photo that i posted and commented about, i felt that it's an important statuette because it seems to be the thracian version of the helmet on page 56 of Junklemann (2000)----unless the curvy horn on top of the helmet is a plume of feathers and not the typical thracian horn. Another difference is that the rim above the eyebrows is curvy versus the squared-off rim above the eybrows on the helmet on page 56 plus the fact that one helmet has many more visor holes versus the other helmet's visor. Another difference between these 2 helmets is that one of them has a "devil horn" on each side of the helmet and the other helmet doesn't.
Michael
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#50
I think the statuette's helmet is more similar to the helmet on page 56 of Junklemann rather then it being related to the Berlin G helmet like you commented (smiles).
Michael
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#51
I only have the new (2003) edition of junkelmann, so I cant look up the image on page 54.
Maybe if you give an indication (or type the german comment given by Junkelmann) I can look it up in my edition.
The "devils horns" are single feathers (spinae) that are sometimes attached in addition to the crest (crista).
Also the Visor is a grated one (not punctured) and it looks to me that it has two halves joind in the middle like a typical Berlin type.

My verison of Junkelmann shows two clay statues of a Murmillo and an Thraex with Berlin type helmets.
The Thraex Helmet looks very musch like the one in your picture.
Even though from the picture you cant see the griffin protuding from the crest, the small rectangular shield and high greaves classify the statue as a Thraex.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
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#52
The image on page 56 has the following comment:
' Provocator mit seinen Siegeskranzen. Relief von einer Brustung aus Ephesos, 3. Jh.n.Chr. Berlin, Staaliche Musseen, Antikensammlung.'
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#53
To olaf, the gladiator relief on page 56 of Junklemann (2000) can also be found as a drawing in the Osprey book on page 19. The Junklemann book and Grant's (1967---entitled "Gladiators") book on page 20 both say it originated in Ephesus of Turkey in the Middle East. The Osprey book claims it originated in Smyrna of Turkey in the Middle East.
Michael
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#54
Well, other interesting book about gladiators is:

·Gladiadores. La muerte como espectáculo Elliot, Julián (Spanish). You can also find an interesting article about gladiators by the same writer in the magazine Historia y vida (History and life) nº 452.

Take also a look on this. I do not understand German at all but it could interest thee.
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#55
if you look at the Osprey page 27 you have a copy of a Thraex with a Berlin type helmet.
The original should also be in the 2000 edition of Junkelmann and both are far more simillar to the bonze Thraex then the late Provocator from Ephesos.
But you are riht in that both helmets have undergone a similar development, so some similiarities do exist.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
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#56
to anyone----I noticed in Junklemann's book (2000) that the timeline on pages 50-51 showed sketches of helmets designated with either a "M" "G" or "M/G". I already know these abbreviations mean military, gladiator and military/gladiator respectively but what idea was junkleman trying to convey here---did he mean the helmets came from a military source or a gladiator source or a military/gladiator source? (smiles)
Michael
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#57
His point is that the military development of helmets went along simillar lines as the gladiatorial.
G Helmets were only used in a gladiatorial context while M helmets were only used in a military context.

M/G helmets were shared between the military and gladiatorial use.
Especially the early provocators and essedarii seem to have used helmets from the military branch.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
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#58
To Olaf or anybody else, so you mean that Junklemann (2000 edition) showed the sketches of the "M" military helmets on pages 50-51 to tell us that these helmets were only used in the military and NOT during gladiatorial contests in the arena, correct? Thankyou if you can answer this question please.
Michael
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#59
Quote:To Olaf or anybody else, so you mean that Junklemann (2000 edition) showed the sketches of the "M" military helmets on pages 50-51 to tell us that these helmets were only used in the military and NOT during gladiatorial contests in the arena, correct? Thankyou if you can answer this question please.

The type of helmets marked with "M" are found in a military context only, while those marked "M/G" are military and gladiatorial and those marked with "G" of course are only gladiatorial.
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#60
Not having much knowledge on gladiators, is "Emperors and Gladiators" by Thomas Wiedemann still considered the best all-round source in english?

I've come across these more recent works from which I've seen no comments here:

- "Gladiators: History's Most Deadly Sport" by Fik Meijer
- "Gladiators: Violence and Spectacle in Ancient Rome" by Roger Dunkle
- "The World of the Gladiator" by Susanna Shadrake
- "The Roman Games: A Sourcebook" by A. Futrell

I'de like something accurate, with no factual mistakes (or as few as possible), scholarly, that contains substantial information on the various equipment, life of the gladiator, the diferent types of events (important!), diferent types of gladiators, the evolution of gladiatorial shows and some social background and analysis.

Any help would be VERY appreciated.
Pedro Pereira
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