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ROMA VICTA!?????
#1
Mah Fellow Forum Members,
Last week I was sent an email by one of the local reinactment people and at the end of my return response I stated " ROMA VICTA!" I was quickly and harshly repremanded for actually stating " Defeat to Rome!" rather than " VICTORY TO ROME!" VERY disheartening and down right shameful/embarrasing for one of Roman decent so might I ask one of your more knowledgable mavens out there what is the appropriate proclaimation. One said " ROMA VICTRIX" yet another said "ROMA VICTOR!" My father (God rest his soul) must be rolling in his grave saying "DISGRAZIA figlio mia"!! I am going to replace my pic here of one wearing a fools cap instead.

Would be real grateful foe anyone to come in here and tweek me hard on the nose while imparting the correct/appropriate phrasiology.

Many thanks!

Titus
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#2
My Latin's not too good, but I'm quite sure it has to be Roma Victrix.
"Victor" is masculine and does not agree in gender with feminine "Roma."

I know that 'Roma Invicta' means "Rome, the unconquerable", so 'Roma Victa' probably means "Rome, the conquered", or "Rome has been conquered"
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#3
Wasn't 'Vae Victis' meant to mean 'Woe to the Conquered'?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#4
Slightly off topic- Kent (the land of the Cantii) has as its motto "Invicta".

Invicta comes from the Latin 'invictus' which means 'unconquerable' or 'undefeated'. There is a memorial stone at the junction of Betsham Road Swanscombe and Watling Street with the following inscription: "Near this spot in the year 1067 by ancient tradition, the Men of Kent and the Kentish Men carrying boughs on their shoulders and swords in their hands met the invader William, Duke of Normandy. They offered peace if he would grant their ancient rights and liberties, otherwise war and that most deadly. Their request was granted and from that day the motto of Kent has been 'Invicta' meaning 'unconquered'".
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#5
Quote:"Near this spot in the year 1067 by ancient tradition, the Men of Kent and the Kentish Men carrying boughs on their shoulders and swords in their hands met the invader William, Duke of Normandy. They offered peace if he would grant their ancient rights and liberties, otherwise war and that most deadly. Their request was granted and from that day the motto of Kent has been 'Invicta' meaning 'unconquered'".

In 1067 - a year after the Conquest? They sure had balls....
But there should be another sign: "Near this spot in 43 AD. The Romans landed and wiped away British resistance...".
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#6
I think that the mistake was not as bad as it seems. If you wanted to say that Rome had been conquered, defeated, it would have been Roma devicta. Roma victa is more something like "made something of its own possessions" - what you've said is that Rome has become something of your own identity. I could live with that.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#7
Thank you ALL for your input but still in the dark. So then is ROMA VICTRIX the mostly commonly used and most appropriate statement??

Thank you.

Cheers Always,

Richard
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#8
Roma Victrix is grammatically correct if you want to say "Rome the Conqueror" or "Rome Victorious"... but I don't know of any ancient attestations of the phrase. You'll want to stay away from "Roma Victa" unless you're a Samnite, Celt, Etruscan, Greek, German, Parthian, etc.
Dan Diffendale
Ph.D. candidate, University of Michigan
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#9
Quote:... but I don't know of any ancient attestations of the phrase.
You can find this phrase on some coins of emperor Vespasianus. See this page.
Greetings
Alexandr
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#10
Alexandr THIS is excellent THANK you MUCH!
ahh so it is "ROMA VICTRIX" at least I would guess in the more formal sense of the greeting? Thanks heaps kind sir.


CHEERS!! Big Grin

Rick
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#11
So then the movie "Gladiator" must be way out wrong when Maximus is shouting "Roma Victor!" in the begining om the movie. How could they be so wrong? Wouldn´t they have some kind of latin experts while doing the movie?

A latin student told me that the right way of saying it is "Roma Victoria!".
Is that so?

So let´s say if the movie would be correct then maximus should have shouted "Roma Victrix!"? Or is it diffrent from spelliing it than pronounce it?

Sorry for my poor english.
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#12
Quote:So then the movie "Gladiator" must be way out wrong when Maximus is shouting "Roma Victor!" in the begining om the movie. How could they be so wrong? Wouldn´t they have some kind of latin experts while doing the movie?

If we look at all the other errors in that movie, which had been corrected easily, without changing the storyline, I would't say they didn't have a expert on the subject.
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CORBVLO and Fectio
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#13
Ok, but when Maximus is shoutingâ€
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#14
Yes. I suppose Romae Victoriam (I think) could have worked (victory for Rome) too.
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#15
Ok! So now we all know for certain. Romae Victoriam or Roma Victrix is the only right ones. All the other ones are wrong. Have we reached a conluscion?
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